1.5 million people

[JamesWales]

That's the increase in net migration to the UK in the last two years. 685,000 last year and 764,000 the year before.

That's nearly 50% bigger than Birmingham, a city with 500 odd schools, hundreds of doctors surgeries, dozens of miles of motorway, thousands of hospital beds, 500,000 homes etc etc

That, +50% is what's needed every two years just to keep up with the level of services we have been used to.

It's absolute madness. Irrespective of who is in power, does anyone think it can carry on?

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ce99y7l741po

[Eric Cartman]

Re: 1.5 million people

That's the increase in net migration to the UK in the last two years. 685,000 last year and 764,000 the year before.

That's nearly 50% bigger than Birmingham, a city with 500 odd schools, hundreds of doctors surgeries, dozens of miles of motorway, thousands of hospital beds, 500,000 homes etc etc

That, +50% is what's needed every two years just to keep up with the level of services we have been used to.

It's absolute madness. Irrespective of who is in power, does anyone think it can carry on?

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ce99y7l741po

The short answer is no, but now we are outside of Schengen, migration can only be a symptom and not the cause. The government have full control over this, are seemingly against mass migration and are still waving people through, that should raise alarm bells as to the resilience of the UK economy.

Also it's difficult to say migration puts a strain on health services when an extraordinary number of the work visas are in health and social care sector. Again this is a symptom of low pay and an aging population. If I can earn min wage to stand around Sainsbury's or the same for care work, I'm doing the former.

It's a bit of a perfect storm, and I hate to bang on a familiar drum but the state pension simply was not designed for the structure of society we see today. Add to that the runaway train that is triple lock, there are simply not enough working age people to pay for this.

So, I'll go with no, but yes, but no.

[goats]

Re: 1.5 million people

That's the increase in net migration to the UK in the last two years. 685,000 last year and 764,000 the year before.

That's nearly 50% bigger than Birmingham, a city with 500 odd schools, hundreds of doctors surgeries, dozens of miles of motorway, thousands of hospital beds, 500,000 homes etc etc

That, +50% is what's needed every two years just to keep up with the level of services we have been used to.

It's absolute madness. Irrespective of who is in power, does anyone think it can carry on?

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ce99y7l741po

One must wonder why?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: 1.5 million people

It makes me laugh

The Tories are saying Labour don't care about illegal immigration

The figures released today are on the Conservative watch

Ending migration to wealthier western countries will never be completely stopped , the best to hope for is better management

[jon1959]

Re: 1.5 million people

The short answer is no, but now we are outside of Schengen, migration can only be a symptom and not the cause. The government have full control over this, are seemingly against mass migration and are still waving people through, that should raise alarm bells as to the resilience of the UK economy.

Also it's difficult to say migration puts a strain on health services when an extraordinary number of the work visas are in health and social care sector. Again this is a symptom of low pay and an aging population. If I can earn min wage to stand around Sainsbury's or the same for care work, I'm doing the former.

It's a bit of a perfect storm, and I hate to bang on a familiar drum but the state pension simply was not designed for the structure of society we see today. Add to that the runaway train that is triple lock, there are simply not enough working age people to pay for this.

So, I'll go with no, but yes, but no.

I agree with that.

But for the national conversation to get beyond hysterical tabloid slogans we need to break down the issues and the numbers and talk about costs and benefits, the risks and obligations, in a serious way.

[Robin Friday's Ghost]

Re: 1.5 million people

The short answer is no, but now we are outside of Schengen

We were never within the Schengen area

[Hilts]

Re: 1.5 million people

And thanks to this Govt a 75% decrease in applications for workers in the Health and Care sector where we actually need jobs.

[Eric Cartman]

Re: 1.5 million people

We were never within the Schengen area

Yep, my mistake.

[lardy]

Re: 1.5 million people

That's the increase in net migration to the UK in the last two years. 685,000 last year and 764,000 the year before.

That's nearly 50% bigger than Birmingham, a city with 500 odd schools, hundreds of doctors surgeries, dozens of miles of motorway, thousands of hospital beds, 500,000 homes etc etc

That, +50% is what's needed every two years just to keep up with the level of services we have been used to.

It's absolute madness. Irrespective of who is in power, does anyone think it can carry on?

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ce99y7l741po

It's a good point.

Who do we need to vote out?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: 1.5 million people

It's a good point.

Who do we need to vote out?

The Labour Party

They came in and said they would sort out immigration

14 years

It's time to give the conservatives a chance

[JamesWales]

Re: 1.5 million people

I think both the main parties have completely fkd up on it, as have most major parties across Europe.

It's wholly unsustainable. One years immigration is about 50% more than the entire windrush generation over 23 years.

The services needed to cope simply cannot be funded, planned and built to keep up, let alone an increasingly divided society.

I really do think a very different approach will be needed in future, though its likely going to take the failure of the next Labour govt to address housing need that will facilitate it.

I'm pretty pessimistic, I have to say

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: 1.5 million people

I think both the main parties have completely fkd up on it, as have most major parties across Europe.

It's wholly unsustainable. One years immigration is about 50% more than the entire windrush generation over 23 years.

The services needed to cope simply cannot be funded, planned and built to keep up, let alone an increasingly divided society.

I really do think a very different approach will be needed in future, though its likely going to take the failure of the next Labour govt to address housing need that will facilitate it.

I'm pretty pessimistic, I have to say

How about the failure of the tory party failing to address housing need for 14 years 😂

And having the feckin bare faced cheek to continue to try and sell council homes

So what's the different approach ?

My view is its about reasonable management instead of the right wing shut the borders stop the boats

[Rjk]

Re: 1.5 million people

That's the increase in net migration to the UK in the last two years. 685,000 last year and 764,000 the year before.

That's nearly 50% bigger than Birmingham, a city with 500 odd schools, hundreds of doctors surgeries, dozens of miles of motorway, thousands of hospital beds, 500,000 homes etc etc

That, +50% is what's needed every two years just to keep up with the level of services we have been used to.

It's absolute madness. Irrespective of who is in power, does anyone think it can carry on?

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ce99y7l741po

Can it carry on?

I mean yes, it can.
Despite what some may want you to think, the country is not "full". However we need to face up to the realities of what that means and make a sober decision about which way the country should go.

the country could support a much larger population, but it would be a very different place than it is today. Larger cities, denser population - it would require significant investment in infrastructure, and there would be cultural changes too, with more influences from other countries.

None of that is necessarily intrinsically bad though.
Many people prefer living in cities than out in the country
Most of us enjoy foreign cuisines instead of boiled meat and vegetables with a stodgy pudding.

it's probably the easiest way to ensure growth continues in the economy, and to pay for an increasingly ageing population - which are things that most of us definitely want to be able to do.

However, it isn't the only way.

Japan (which incidentally has a much higher population and population density than the UK) has been declining in population since 2008 - it hasn't turned to immigration to maintain growth in the economy.
As a result GDP has flatlined there for about the last 30 years.
However they still maintain a good quality of life, and good public services.
House prices are lower today than they were in 1990.

There is definitely an argument to say that we could look at an alternative approach and do more of a managed decline of the country than to throw everything at the altar of GDP, just we never really hear these things properly discussed, instead we seem to let far right morons frame the debate.

[az city]

Re: 1.5 million people

I think both the main parties have completely fkd up on it, as have most major parties across Europe.

It's wholly unsustainable. One years immigration is about 50% more than the entire windrush generation over 23 years.

The services needed to cope simply cannot be funded, planned and built to keep up, let alone an increasingly divided society.

I really do think a very different approach will be needed in future, though its likely going to take the failure of the next Labour govt to address housing need that will facilitate it.

I'm pretty pessimistic, I have to say

Jimbo, here's a puzzle from Econ 101 for you - If productivity is flat and GDFCF is stagnant, where does economic growth come from?

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Re: 1.5 million people

The short answer is no, but now we are outside of Schengen, migration can only be a symptom and not the cause. The government have full control over this, are seemingly against mass migration and are still waving people through, that should raise alarm bells as to the resilience of the UK economy.

Also it's difficult to say migration puts a strain on health services when an extraordinary number of the work visas are in health and social care sector. Again this is a symptom of low pay and an aging population. If I can earn min wage to stand around Sainsbury's or the same for care work, I'm doing the former.

It's a bit of a perfect storm, and I hate to bang on a familiar drum but the state pension simply was not designed for the structure of society we see today. Add to that the runaway train that is triple lock, there are simply not enough working age people to pay for this.

So, I'll go with no, but yes, but no.

We were never a part of Schengen. We opted to have our own border controls and wouldn't abolish them, otherwise anyone from the EU could have entered the UK without passport controls.