And a jump from the right

[Citizen's Nephew]

Re: And a jump from the right

Nothing to disagree with there. Labour didn't really win the election but the Tories lost it. Once again we had an election that was about getting rid of or stopping one lot.

The Reform question needs raising and sorting. I get that, to some, they represent a change from the norm, but we also have to realise that Reform probably split opinions more than the Tories. I know several people who are glad Reform didn't do as well as some were predicting. Plaid are somewhat divisive in Wales and will never get enough support to really challenge as things stand, and I see Reform in the same way. There isn't currently, and I don't believe there ever will be, enough public support for Reform for them to be a major player. Their role is primarily to get the Tories to venture further to the right. Remember the Brexit Party standing aside in the last election rather than split the Tory vote. This time they chose not to and have given the Tories a bloody nose. It's not Labour that have caused that bloody nose, it's been Reform.

The vast majority of Reform voters were disgruntled Tories or previous voters of UKIP and the likes. The Tory/Reform combined vote has gone down while the Greens, Plaid, Lib Dem vote has gone up, so this causes problems for the Tories. The temptation will be to veer more to the right to quell Reform, but in doing so will make themselves less electable, that's a certainty. If they try to make gains in the middle ground, they risk losing voters to Reform.

Liz Truss had a very right wing government with all their leading protagonists in the main positions. It disintegrated within days and the public certainly doesn't have an appetite for those politics.

In Wales, I don't see many Labour voters ditching the party to vote Reform. Like the rest of the UK, Reform votes will come from Tory and former UKIP/Brexit Party voters. I think this needs to be understood. Lib Dem, Green and Plaid voters will not vote Reform. Few Labour voters will, either. I strongly believe that, in Wales, more people will stand up and vote against the Tories and Reform if they pose a threat.

I don't think some realise that Reform are a toxic "party" to many. Whether people want change is one thing, going down that route will never appeal to the majority.

[Wales-Bales]

Re: And a jump from the right

That's hardly a surprise. Young people are hardly right wing nowadays while the older generation, who would vote for the right keep dying off.

How could young people be right wing after spending 14 years in a state education system?

[Wales-Bales]

Re: And a jump from the right

After a catastrophic defeat at the polls it was amusing to see all the mainstream media comforting themselves with the "just a protest vote" line to explain away the Reform success. It seems out of all the Tories that lost their seats last night only Penny Mordant understood what went wrong which can be summed up in 3 words. "WE DIDN'T LISTEN"

They weren't supposed to listen, they just had to get SKS into Downing Street. You can't feel sorry for them either, as they will all be rewarded with lucrative corporate jobs in the square mile.

[Rjk]

Re: And a jump from the right

They weren't supposed to listen, they just had to get SKS into Downing Street. You can't feel sorry for them either as they will all be rewarded with lucrative corporate jobs in the square mile.

:facepalm:

[Wales-Bales]

Re: And a jump from the right

:facepalm:

Just see how it goes mate, we are in the middle of a never ending drama, and it hasn't even got going yet.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Re: And a jump from the right

How could young people be right wing after spending 14 years in a state education system?

Absolutely. It takes years of listening to lies and indoctrination.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Re: And a jump from the right

Protest vote yesterday against tough times, people are basically blaming governments for everything, voting has become more volatile, all you have to do to win the next one, is constantly slag of the Government, people will vote for change.

What does change mean, nothing really who cares just say that and if times are tough people will vote for it.

Don't get me wrong the Conservatives deserved to lose, but nothing will change, immigration will increase and NHS, schools and the rest will get worse unless their is massive borrowing and Liz Truss-type market falls and gilt loses or tax increases.

Immigration isn't as big an issue for some as others try to make out.

I think it's time for the big debate on immigration. If I was Prime Minister I would flood the media (print, TV, radio, social etc) with all the stats under the sun about immigration. Most people haven't got the faintest idea what they are talking about when it comes to immigration and rely on a few things plucked out of the ether by parties, politicians etc to reinforce their "beliefs". There hasn't been a level debate on immigration where facts are debated rationally, rather than it has been done mainly through emotions to stir up hatred.

If there were boats coming full of Americans into the UK, nobody would bat an eyelid. Because they might contain muslims, different story. Immigration is a race issue for some, nobody can deny this.

Nobody has ever answered this question for me on here or any where else - if we had a baby boom in the UK and 300,000 more babies were born in a year, would we want to deport some as the UK is "full up"?

I have yet to hear anyone advocate that we should let anyone in, which is the usual retort of those against much immigration. For many, the NHS is more important than immigration as one issue. Funnily enough, we rely quite a bit on immigration for our NHS to survive.

[sneggyblubird]

Re: And a jump from the right

Immigration isn't as big an issue for some as others try to make out.

I think it's time for the big debate on immigration. If I was Prime Minister I would flood the media (print, TV, radio, social etc) with all the stats under the sun about immigration. Most people haven't got the faintest idea what they are talking about when it comes to immigration and rely on a few things plucked out of the ether by parties, politicians etc to reinforce their "beliefs". There hasn't been a level debate on immigration where facts are debated rationally, rather than it has been done mainly through emotions to stir up hatred.

If there were boats coming full of Americans into the UK, nobody would bat an eyelid. Because they might contain muslims, different story. Immigration is a race issue for some, nobody can deny this.

Nobody has ever answered this question for me on here or any where else - if we had a baby boom in the UK and 300,000 more babies were born in a year, would we want to deport some as the UK is "full up"?

I have yet to hear anyone advocate that we should let anyone in, which is the usual retort of those against much immigration. For many, the NHS is more important than immigration as one issue. Funnily enough, we rely quite a bit on immigration for our NHS to survive.

When you say most people haven't got the faintest idea about immigration it looks like you mean yourself as well judging by the content of your post.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Re: And a jump from the right

When you say most people haven't got the faintest idea about immigration it looks like you mean yourself as well judging by the content of your post.

If you mean me mentioning race, I'm absolutely right in saying that some people don't want people of different ethnicities into the country.

[delmbox]

Re: And a jump from the right

If you mean me mentioning race, I'm absolutely right in saying that some people don't want people of different ethnicities into the country.

Between March 2022 and June 2023, 180,000 Ukranians came here due to fleeing war in their home country. We're not "the first safe country" they'd get to (if that wasn't just an entirely made up thing anyway) but you never hear a peep of complaint about being too full for them etc

[A Quiet Monkfish]

Re: And a jump from the right

If you mean me mentioning race, I'm absolutely right in saying that some people don't want people of different ethnicities into the country.

I think people don't want Albanian gangsters coming to our towns and cities because they're gangsters, not because they're Albanians..

[Citizen's Nephew]

Re: And a jump from the right

Immigration isn't as big an issue for some as others try to make out.

I think it's time for the big debate on immigration. If I was Prime Minister I would flood the media (print, TV, radio, social etc) with all the stats under the sun about immigration. Most people haven't got the faintest idea what they are talking about when it comes to immigration and rely on a few things plucked out of the ether by parties, politicians etc to reinforce their "beliefs". There hasn't been a level debate on immigration where facts are debated rationally, rather than it has been done mainly through emotions to stir up hatred.

If there were boats coming full of Americans into the UK, nobody would bat an eyelid. Because they might contain muslims, different story. Immigration is a race issue for some, nobody can deny this.

Nobody has ever answered this question for me on here or any where else - if we had a baby boom in the UK and 300,000 more babies were born in a year, would we want to deport some as the UK is "full up"?

I have yet to hear anyone advocate that we should let anyone in, which is the usual retort of those against much immigration. For many, the NHS is more important than immigration as one issue. Funnily enough, we rely quite a bit on immigration for our NHS to survive.

I'd add that Social Care is bigger (but massively connected to) than the NHS. It's killing older people by stealth. It's killing disabled people by stealth. It's killing mentally ill people by stealth. The NHS cannot function without the solid foundation of Social Care in this country. We desperately need to have greater freedom of movement again in order to deal with this. As well as massive spending. For anyone who says we can't afford it. Yes we can. We certainly can't afford not to tackle it.

[Citizen's Nephew]

Re: And a jump from the right

I think people don't want Albanian gangsters coming to our towns and cities because they're gangsters, not because they're Albanians..

People don't want gangsters. Even home-grown ones. It's so f*cking racist what you've just posted but you can't see it can you?

[ToTaL ITK]

Re: And a jump from the right

Well done for kicking the Tory scum out of Wales

[Citizen's Nephew]

Re: And a jump from the right

Between March 2022 and June 2023, 180,000 Ukranians came here due to fleeing war in their home country. We're not "the first safe country" they'd get to (if that wasn't just an entirely made up thing anyway) but you never hear a peep of complaint about being too full for them etc

Because all people are equal but some are more equal than others.