Southport stabbings

[JamesWales]

Re: Southport stabbings

I've watched the whole video and it's both interesting but very depressing and worrying. I'm finding it harder and harder to trust online platforms. I have to include this one too. There's some vile stuff posted and there's push back but one has to question everything.

All I know is that it's not a healthy environment online and it's no wonder there are more and more people (including a significant number of Gen Zs) who are choosing to unplug.

From my own perspective, I feel I want less to do with online connection. I spent 10 years away from social platforms. I understand there's irony here because I'm posting now, but there are certain things in my life now that are just way too toxic to be part of and whilst I'm trying really hard to be a better person regarding debate and discussion, it's hard work and I wonder these days if the benefits outweigh the frustrations.

I'm not sure what the answers are. This is just a mind dump after watching that vid.

Good night people and stay safe.

Although we've had a few ding dongs on politics I think there is a tremendous amount we would agree on.

One of the things I generally dislike about modern discourse is the binary left/right bollocks. In most cases you just have solutions and ideas that dont fit within it.

[cyril evans awaydays]

Re: Southport stabbings

Yep, politicians gonna politicise unfortunately.

I do think there's some truth in what he's saying though. There has been growing discontent about a lot of things for a long time and a general desire to push things under the carpet and a general perception that everyone is not being treated equally.

Social media, the established media and the internet again making these situations more likely. Unfortunately.

No, responsible politicians from across the political spectrum have been quick to set the right tone and dampen down the speculation that triggered so many people from all over the country to converge on Southport and injure 72 police officers.

Only one party and particularly its leader has fanned the flames. As someone once said all this is very unhelpful when what we need is unifiers.

[JamesWales]

Re: Southport stabbings

No, responsible politicians from across the political spectrum have been quick to set the right tone and dampen down the speculation that triggered so many people from all over the country to converge on Southport and injure 72 police officers.

Only one party and particularly its leader has fanned the flames. As someone once said all this is very unhelpful when what we need is unifiers.

Sure, Farage has been entirely unhelpful, I've said that twice.

But you can't ignore what he's saying either. Millions are concerned. Millions do think the country is fractured and want more stop and search and harsher punishments for knife carrying etc. Many have warned of how serious the whole illegal immigration issue is as people do have to be housed in communities etc. Many will look at politicised responses, which Farage himself is absolutely doing. But Starmer has too, and look at this editorial from the guardian after Harehills.

It ignores the event entirely and pins blame on its particular bogeyman.

There is previously little on all sides of soberly sitting down and recognising the issues. For too long legitimate concerns have been ignored and that adds fuel to the fire just as many politicians (including Farage) does.

As I keep saying afd nauseum to many issues happening in the UK - they arent unique to us, they are happening in most European countries and therefore the causes aren't just here either.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/jul/22/the-guardian-view-on-unrest-in-leeds-fodder-for-far-right-disinformation

[life on mars]

Re: Southport stabbings

There is one fact no one can hide from within Europe there are calls to control illegal immigration to stop the demands pulling on countries to fund thier housing ,education, health and yes there is an uplift in crime , extreme terrorism, sexual attacks against women , people trafficking , drugs foreign gangs .

Now Farage , Tories, Trump may annoy us with thier out spoken blunt views, isn't it better they do than sit on ones hands and pretend nothing is going on because somewhere in the middle of both arguments is the truth.

Immigration as it stands is not sustainable.. thank god the current Tory Lite government finally agree.

[jeepster]

Re: Southport stabbings

There is one fact no one can hide from within Europe there are calls to control illegal immigration to stop the demands pulling on countries to fund thier housing ,education, health and yes there is an uplift in crime , extreme terrorism, sexual attacks against women , people trafficking , drugs foreign gangs .

Now Farage , Tories, Trump may annoy us with thier out spoken blunt views, isn't it better they do than sit on ones hands and pretend nothing is going on because somewhere in the middle of both arguments is the truth.

Immigration as it stands is not sustainable.. thank god the current Tory Lite government finally agree.

So you think Trump and Farage tell the truth, dont make me laugh.
They both spout lies to create division in society.

[Dorcus]

Re: Southport stabbings

What's immigration got to do with these Southport stabbings? The perpetrator is originally from Cardiff and there's no international border between England and Wales... yet!

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Southport stabbings

There is one fact no one can hide from within Europe there are calls to control illegal immigration to stop the demands pulling on countries to fund thier housing ,education, health and yes there is an uplift in crime , extreme terrorism, sexual attacks against women , people trafficking , drugs foreign gangs .

Now Farage , Tories, Trump may annoy us with thier out spoken blunt views, isn't it better they do than sit on ones hands and pretend nothing is going on because somewhere in the middle of both arguments is the truth.

Immigration as it stands is not sustainable.. thank god the current Tory Lite government finally agree.

Sunak is a decent enough guy

Farage is a complete right wing snake oil salesman

[Citizen's Nephew]

Re: Southport stabbings

Although we've had a few ding dongs on politics I think there is a tremendous amount we would agree on.

One of the things I generally dislike about modern discourse is the binary left/right bollocks. In most cases you just have solutions and ideas that dont fit within it.

How can I not agree with this. Last night I felt worn down with it all. It's actually not good for me personally. I end up having to remind myself that I have options. The trouble is I woke up in a sh*t mood today. But after a couple of outbursts I quickly realised I needed to take a step back....as it happens....I've had a really productive day.

There's a lesson there I need to take on board.

[Citizen's Nephew]

Re: Southport stabbings

Anyway. As Cyril quite rightly reminded us several posts ago this thread is about the tragedy and we shouldn't digress from that. We should probably start a new thread when things start veering off into the politics of things and these riots and protests have muddied the water.

[JamesWales]

Re: Southport stabbings

So you think Trump and Farage tell the truth, dont make me laugh.
They both spout lies to create division in society.

Which politician is telling the truth? Which set of voters wants to hear it?

[JamesWales]

Re: Southport stabbings

How can I not agree with this. Last night I felt worn down with it all. It's actually not good for me personally. I end up having to remind myself that I have options. The trouble is I woke up in a sh*t mood today. But after a couple of outbursts I quickly realised I needed to take a step back....as it happens....I've had a really productive day.

There's a lesson there I need to take on board.

Yeah Im the same sometimes. A break is healthy, as is a general digital detox.

Important to take care of ourselves and step back from unnecessary stress

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Southport stabbings

Which politician is telling the truth? Which set of voters wants to hear it?

I’ve just been on Twitter for two minutes, I read Lawrence Fox using the words “then it’s war”, Elon Musk saying Civil War in the UK is inevitable and Tamworth’s Labour MP saying in Parliament five days ago (I.e. after the Southport stabbings) that her constituents want their hotel back.

This has now reached the stage where, if the rioters ever had any degree of right on their side, it has long gone now - citizens advice bureaus have been burnt down, shops looted and non whites attacked in the street for nothing more than the colour of their skin. This issue is now very polarised and I think we’re reaping the consequences of decades of newspaper headlines from a paper that supported the Nazis, TV Channels (in recent years) set up to spread a far right agenda, certain politicians and public figures trying to take us back to Oswald Mosley’s times (none of this hasn’t happened before) and a general downgrading of the standards that existed when people of the sort of ages we find on her were growing up.

You have been dismissive of claims that Facscism has been alive and well in the UK in recent years in the past, do you still feel that way because what we’re seeing in the last week seems little different to what was happening here in the 30s to me.

[Jordi Culé]

Re: Southport stabbings

I’ve just been on Twitter for two minutes, I read Lawrence Fox using the words “then it’s war”, Elon Musk saying Civil War in the UK is inevitable and Tamworth’s Labour MP saying in Parliament five days ago (I.e. after the Southport stabbings) that her constituents want their hotel back.

This has now reached the stage where, if the rioters ever had any degree of right on their side, it has long gone now - citizens advice bureaus have been burnt down, shops looted and non whites attacked in the street for nothing more than the colour of their skin. This issue is now very polarised and I think we’re reaping the consequences of decades of newspaper headlines from a paper that supported the Nazis, TV Channels (in recent years) set up to spread a far right agenda, certain politicians and public figures trying to take us back to Oswald Mosley’s times (none of this hasn’t happened before) and a general downgrading of the standards that existed when people of the sort of ages we find on her were growing up.

You have been dismissive of claims that Facscism has been alive and well in the UK in recent years in the past, do you still feel that way because what we’re seeing in the last week seems little different to what was happening here in the 30s to me.

From a former Conservative adviser.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/04/conservatives-left-uk-wide-open-to-far-right-violence-says-former-adviser

It echoes some of your points about some politicians stoking up culture wars for personal and political gain. Amazingly, perhaps the same politicians also reduced the preventative services which combat extremism from radicalising more people?

It's either neglect and incompetence or a deliberate attempt to create the environment the UK is currently experiencing?

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Southport stabbings

From a former Conservative adviser.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/04/conservatives-left-uk-wide-open-to-far-right-violence-says-former-adviser

It echoes some of your points about some politicians stoking up culture wars for personal and political gain. Amazingly, perhaps the same politicians also reduced the preventative services which combat extremism from radicalising more people?

It's either neglect and incompetence or a deliberate attempt to create the environment the UK is currently experiencing?

The Conservative Government of 2019 to 2024 was the worst, most corrupt and lacking in talent one of my lifetime for all sorts of reasons and your link has identified another one to go on the list. I think calls to make the new Government wholly responsible for what is happening and for Starmer to resign are ludicrous, but Labour are far from blameless in this - at times over the past five years, it seemed like they were taking on the Tories in a race to the bottom when it came to immigration and, as a leader who appears to get a kick out of suspending MPs from his party, Starmer should be taking action against the MP for Tamworth for the timing of her remarks in particular..

So many of the "usual suspects" in the media and in politics that we see cheerleading from the sidelines are public school educated, they have no experience of the conditions they use to justify what we've been seeing in recent days, they have an agenda which is linked to money (a subject dear to their hearts). I see Farage has been absent from this country over the weekend because he's been recording an interview with another racist grifter, Donald Trump.

[Jordi Culé]

Re: Southport stabbings

The Conservative Government of 2019 to 2024 was the worst, most corrupt and lacking in talent one of my lifetime for all sorts of reasons and your link has identified another one to go on the list. I think calls to make the new Government wholly responsible for what is happening and for Starmer to resign are ludicrous, but Labour are far from blameless in this - at times over the past five years, it seemed like they were taking on the Tories in a race to the bottom when it came to immigration and, as a leader who appears to get a kick out of suspending MPs from his party, Starmer should be taking action against the MP for Tamworth for the timing of her remarks in particular..

So many of the "usual suspects" in the media and in politics that we see cheerleading from the sidelines are public school educated, they have no experience of the conditions they use to justify what we've been seeing in recent days, they have an agenda which is linked to money (a subject dear to their hearts). I see Farage has been absent from this country over the weekend because he's been recording an interview with another racist grifter, Donald Trump.

It's like watching rats eat each other isn't it?

I didn't have this on my political bingo card where Patel is pointing a finger at Farage.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/aug/05/priti-patel-criticises-nigel-farage-response-far-right-riots