Justin Welby

[jeepster]

Re: Justin Welby

Can you expand on that comment because it's current unclear what you are saying?

Read 7 and 8 and what year they were written and then people thought this is the way.
Do you know what you are saying?Does it make any sense?

[Alan Lung]

Re: Justin Welby

Will there be free pens?

[goats]

Re: Justin Welby

Will there be free pens?

Just red scarfs

[truthpaste]

Re: Justin Welby

Read 7 and 8 and what year they were written and then people thought this is the way.
Do you know what you are saying?Does it make any sense?

Ok, putting aside the modern (recent) examples for a moment, do you deny that the Jesus spoken of in the Bible lived just over 2000 years ago and died via Crucifixian? Do you KNOW if evidence outside of the Bible points to the fact of the Resurrection?

If you have spent MORE than 24 month (without doing your usual job) and have more key contacts in history, archaeology, ancient texts etc than *this guy - a journalist - who looked at all the facts as an atheist; then maybe you need to write to him to put him straight.

This verified event (as I know *20 minutes of your attention is probably too much to ask) outside the writings of the Bible was predicted 800 years before it happened by Isaiah and 1000 years before by King David - and Jews in this situation (if claiming to be God) were supposed to be stoned to death.

[jeepster]

Re: Justin Welby

Ok, putting aside the modern (recent) examples for a moment, do you deny that the Jesus spoken of in the Bible lived just over 2000 years ago and died via Crucifixian? Do you KNOW if evidence outside of the Bible points to the fact of the Resurrection?

If you have spent MORE than 24 month (without doing your usual job) and have more key contacts in history, archaeology, ancient texts etc than *this guy - a journalist - who looked at all the facts as an atheist; then maybe you need to write to him to put him straight.

This verified event (as I know *20 minutes of your attention is probably too much to ask) outside the writings of the Bible was predicted 800 years before it happened by Isaiah and 1000 years before by King David - and Jews in this situation (if claiming to be God) were supposed to be stoned to death.

It is still unproven,this guy it is just his opinion.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: Justin Welby

It is still unproven,this guy it is just his opinion.

Just watched it. It's garrulous fluff from someone who couldn't imagine living a non-hedonistic lifestyle with religion.

[truthpaste]

Re: Justin Welby

Just watched it. It's garrulous fluff from someone who couldn't imagine living a non-hedonistic lifestyle with religion.

Lie all you like, he was as devastated as any atheist would be (in one sense) to discover his former atheistic wife was now believing in something that all the details from his extensive research couldn't deny as historical fact.
Christ rose from the dead, stop wasting your time denying it and start to process what that now means for you and everyone.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: Justin Welby

Lie all you like, he was as devastated as any atheist would be (in one sense) to discover his former atheistic wife was now believing in something that all the details from his extensive research couldn't deny as historical fact.
Christ rose from the dead, stop wasting your time denying it and start to process what that now means for you and everyone.

What lie did I tell, oh unpleasant one?

[Gofer Blue]

Re: Justin Welby

It is still unproven,this guy it is just his opinion.

In the opening minutes they make an excellent case for atheism covering most of the points we often read on this forum. The resurrection is the basis of Christian faith and if it can be proved that it did not happen, then Christianity is dead in the water. Obviously as a one-off historical event it can neither be proven or disproven in the scientific sense, so we have to look at the available evidence. This is something I did myself, but not until many years (20 or so?) after I had dismissed any notion of a loving creator God during my atheistic teenager days when I thought science could explain everything.

I read two books - "Who moved the stone" and "The case for Christ". These are both in-depth studies into what I suppose could be described as the sociology of the Holy Land at the time as a background to the events surrounding the resurrection,as well as aspects of the event itself. Both books were written by skeptics who set out to try to disprove the resurrection and deal with all the usual criticisms such as Jesus wasn't really dead in the first place, the disciples stole the body, Jesus had an identical twin brother, the disciples suffered some kind of mass hallucination, it was all wishful thinking etc. etc.

I'm pretty confident that no-one who contributes to this debate will bother to read either of these as it will take some considerable time/effort and will instead probably take a short cut and read a summary critique by some well known atheist. So this then is my challenge to you, as indeed I was challenged. Read them for yourself in their entirety and only then decide whether to accept or reject the resurrection. I try to be a constant witness to the Christian faith but you can lead a horse to water etc.....

I do not have the tenacity of Truthpaste so I will not labour the point. I've done my bit, now over to you.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: Justin Welby

Can you quote me ever writing a denial about Christmas not rising from the dead? Or have you just made that up? You do seem to imagine
things at times before you go off at irrelevant tangents?

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: Justin Welby

Can you quote me ever writing a denial about Christmas not rising from the dead? Or have you just made that up? You do seem to imagine
things at times before you go off at irrelevant tangents?

Christmas = Christ

[jeepster]

Re: Justin Welby

In the opening minutes they make an excellent case for atheism covering most of the points we often read on this forum. The resurrection is the basis of Christian faith and if it can be proved that it did not happen, then Christianity is dead in the water. Obviously as a one-off historical event it can neither be proven or disproven in the scientific sense, so we have to look at the available evidence. This is something I did myself, but not until many years (20 or so?) after I had dismissed any notion of a loving creator God during my atheistic teenager days when I thought science could explain everything.

I read two books - "Who moved the stone" and "The case for Christ". These are both in-depth studies into what I suppose could be described as the sociology of the Holy Land at the time as a background to the events surrounding the resurrection,as well as aspects of the event itself. Both books were written by skeptics who set out to try to disprove the resurrection and deal with all the usual criticisms such as Jesus wasn't really dead in the first place, the disciples stole the body, Jesus had an identical twin brother, the disciples suffered some kind of mass hallucination, it was all wishful thinking etc. etc.

I'm pretty confident that no-one who contributes to this debate will bother to read either of these as it will take some considerable time/effort and will instead probably take a short cut and read a summary critique by some well known atheist. So this then is my challenge to you, as indeed I was challenged. Read them for yourself in their entirety and only then decide whether to accept or reject the resurrection. I try to be a constant witness to the Christian faith but you can lead a horse to water etc.....

I do not have the tenacity of Truthpaste so I will not labour the point. I've done my bit, now over to you.

I do respect you but Truthpaste can be very cutting.

[stevo]

Re: Justin Welby

Truthpaste and Gofer - sorry, I can’t remember if I asked this before but would the proof of non-human intelligence (aliens) contradict your beliefs?

Also, do you believe in the firmament as described in the Bible, which suggests the Earth is flat? Thanks in advance. I’m genuinely interested in this topic.

[Gofer Blue]

Re: Justin Welby

I do respect you but Truthpaste can be very cutting.

TP and I are both believers in, and followers of, Jesus. TP is very much “in your face” and reminds unbelievers upfront that they are unrepentant sinners and are on the broad, easy road to hell – which is true, sadly. My approach is somewhat different. I first try to get folk to question why the world is the way it is today. God came in the form of Jesus to show us how to live but as G.K.Chesterton said, Christianity has not been tried and found wanting, it has been found too difficult and left untried. Not by everyone of course, otherwise there would not be millions of people around the world who are Christians including TP and myself.

That is not to say that it is not difficult to be one. At worst in the U.K. Christians are subject to ridicule but in some parts of the world their lives are on the line – I personally know of pastors in India for example who have been murdered and their homes/churches burnt down.

We are Christians not because we believe we are somehow better, i.e. morally superior, to most people but quite the opposite – we recognise that however “good” we are, we are still sinners who fall way short of the goodness of God/Jesus. It is only by grace that we are saved. I like to leave that thought with people and let them ponder these things for themselves. At some point they will either become convicted of the truth that they are sinners in need of that grace or they will not. It is not my job to convert people, but just to sow the seeds.

[truthpaste]

Re: Justin Welby

I do respect you but Truthpaste can be very cutting.

Sure, I can be very direct, less so if I get to have a full converstion with individuals and in over 40 years of doing so I've had hundreds of atheists shake my hand, some have agreed to disagree but still say they've appreciated the converstion and often found out something about the Bible they'd not realised before.
What they wisely didn't do is dismiss what the Bible says without a second thought or fail to ask questions respectfully.

I would suggest we all try to do likewise on any subject and we won't hear so much from those who don't suffer fools gladly.