Government Minister Resignation

[JamesWales]

Re: Government Minister Resignation

Well I havnt

The causes of ill health can be addressed till the cows come home but if someone recovering from a stroke in 2025 is awarded PIP or an out of work benefit but 2 years later YOU have a stroke but get f all because of this bill ....then we have a serious problem every bit as serious as people working from home etc

I don't disagree with you Sludge.

[Dorcus]

Re: Government Minister Resignation

Do you even know what "right wing" means? 😂

Right wing clap trap like NHS Wales?

Worse outcomes for mental wellbeing. Worse outcomes for loneliness.

And it's getting worse since COVID.

It's impact is disproportionately on the lower paid
Those in unhappy homes
Those with less space
Younger people.

The idea that huge decreases in human interaction has no impact on mental well-being is plainly highly unlikely. It's having a huge impact. If you don't care about it that's up to you, if you personally benefit then good for you, but don't pretend it's not an issue.

Alongside other issues it's having a huge impact on individual and collective wellbeing. Can you actually imagine what it's like for people unhappy homes to be made to spend more time there?

This isn't about flexibility. Hybrid work can work. It's about a society where people are mixing much less than before, and that has an impact and the rise in poor mental health, especially in the young absolutely is part of that.

https://phw.nhs.wales/news/is-working-from-home-good-for-your-health/how-does-working-from-home-affect-health-and-wellbeing/

And yes, the fact the government aren't talking about this and other issues, and instead just bluntly talking finances of the increased benefit costs does annoy me!

Absolute boll***s! You absolutely have no idea what you're talking about. I've lived through it. This issue shows you up as the grubby little bigot you are.

[JamesWales]

Re: Government Minister Resignation

Absolute boll***s! You absolutely have no idea what you're talking about. I've lived through it. This issue shows you up as the grubby little bigot you are.

What the hell are you on about? We all lived through it and continue to do so. What are you saying is bollocks? The NHs data?

From this article: a reported 80% feels it harms their mental health. I am one of them, I know many of them, some very seriously indeed. Don't throw insults around when people are trying to work out the serious mental health problems in this country, that have got significantly worse since COVID.

I'll add "bigot" as another word you clearly don't know the meaning of, because sharing NHS Wales data on mental health is definitely not an example of it.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jul/02/working-from-home-mental-health-society

[jon1959]

Re: Government Minister Resignation

If the government ever had a plot on 'welfare reform' (other than making budget cuts) they have totally lost it today!

It started as an incoherent and contradictory mess - and they have managed to make an even bigger dogs breakfast out of it.

And made Liz Kendall look even more of a clown in the process (the latest changes/concessions completely undermine most of her pitch earlier in the day).

This is a failure of policy, party management, and having a narrative (controlled or not). Shambles!

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Government Minister Resignation

If the government ever had a plot on 'welfare reform' (other than making budget cuts) they have totally lost it today!

It started as an incoherent and contradictory mess - and they have managed to make an even bigger dogs breakfast out of it.

And made Liz Kendall look even more of a clown in the process (the latest changes/concessions completely undermine most of her pitch earlier in the day).

This is a failure of policy, party management, and having a narrative (controlled or not). Shambles!

I think its fantastic that people with serious disabilities already on PIP are telling the government ....we according to you are protected.....but what about young people becoming disabled in a few years ? You are cutting these people adrift

Fair play to them

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Government Minister Resignation

If the government ever had a plot on 'welfare reform' (other than making budget cuts) they have totally lost it today!

It started as an incoherent and contradictory mess - and they have managed to make an even bigger dogs breakfast out of it.

And made Liz Kendall look even more of a clown in the process (the latest changes/concessions completely undermine most of her pitch earlier in the day).

This is a failure of policy, party management, and having a narrative (controlled or not). Shambles!

Haven’t they just. Leave the yah boo stuff to one side, the politics and management of it all has been abysmal, to the extent that there are still plenty of rebels not supporting their party and the policy has just become a joke. I used to think that the last Government was the worst one I’ve seen at the art of politics, but this lot are probably worse.

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Government Minister Resignation

HavenÂ’t they just. Leave the yah boo stuff to one side, the politics and management of it all has been abysmal, to the extent that there are still plenty of rebels not supporting their party and the policy has just become a joke. I used to think that the last Government was the worst one IÂ’ve seen at the art of politics, but this lot are probably worse.

It has been a shambles.

This debacle has probably killed any chance of reform of the benefits system in this parliament.

I expect labour will just take their medicine and opt to absorb the ballooning welfare bill by cutting elsewhere now, kicking the can down the road for someone else to deal with.

Then we might see what cuts really look like...

[JamesWales]

Re: Government Minister Resignation

Is it true the concessions will actually end up costing more money? If so it's one of the most tragic comedies I can remember in British politics in recent years.

A great example of a win being a loss

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Government Minister Resignation

It has been a shambles.

This debacle has probably killed any chance of reform of the benefits system in this parliament.

I expect labour will just take their medicine and opt to absorb the ballooning welfare bill by cutting elsewhere now, kicking the can down the road for someone else to deal with.

Then we might see what cuts really look like...

As a percentage of gdp the welfare bill hasn't risen much since 2008

The promise to triple lock costs absolutely crazy amounts of money

And of course the deliberate blurring between out of work payments and ill health benefits is disgraceful ...playing to the crowd

If starmer and Reeves had introduced a freeze to certain benefits for 2 years and genuinely entered into dialogue with disability groups then things would have been very different

A survey by electoral calculus yesterday .....one of the best poll analysts ....said labour just needed to pull back the voters who had left to the liberals and the greens and they would still win the election

But after this complete shambles and back stabbing then unless starmer is axed and the cabinet sent packing they have absolutely no chance . None of the main players have any respect . What idiots Kendal, Timms , Nandy , Reynolds, Alexander , Rayner have looked lying through their teeth defending this bill .....shameful and embarrassing

They have shot themselves in the foot and alienated so many supporters who were clinging on desperately

They have looked like sunaks government , in its last few months

The talk of the next election being 4 years away is irrelevant now , I am praying he soon walks the plank

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Government Minister Resignation

Is it true the concessions will actually end up costing more money? If so it's one of the most tragic comedies I can remember in British politics in recent years.

A great example of a win being a loss

It's possible I guess because there are provisions in the bill committing to spending. Depends which way you look at it, we know the cost of pip is going to balloon by the end of the parliament and this bill was only going to mitigate that, it wasn't a cut at all so if the question is whether pip will cost more next year than last year the answer will be yes.

The problem for labour is now what wiggle room do they actually have in any of their major budgets? Health - none, welfare - none, etc.

So it's tax rises (beyond the usual fiscal drag tax rise), borrowing more for day to day spending or canning infrastructure spending.

[JamesWales]

Re: Government Minister Resignation

It's possible I guess because there are provisions in the bill committing to spending. Depends which way you look at it, we know the cost of pip is going to balloon by the end of the parliament and this bill was only going to mitigate that, it wasn't a cut at all so if the question is whether pip will cost more next year than last year the answer will be yes.

The problem for labour is now what wiggle room do they actually have in any of their major budgets? Health - none, welfare - none, etc.

So it's tax rises (beyond the usual fiscal drag tax rise), borrowing more for day to day spending or canning infrastructure spending.

What a mess.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Government Minister Resignation

It's possible I guess because there are provisions in the bill committing to spending. Depends which way you look at it, we know the cost of pip is going to balloon by the end of the parliament and this bill was only going to mitigate that, it wasn't a cut at all so if the question is whether pip will cost more next year than last year the answer will be yes.

The problem for labour is now what wiggle room do they actually have in any of their major budgets? Health - none, welfare - none, etc.

So it's tax rises (beyond the usual fiscal drag tax rise), borrowing more for day to day spending or canning infrastructure spending.

Defence

Spending ridiculous amounts of money on bombs is nonsense

Increasing high tech defence of computer systems is great and far more cost effective

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Government Minister Resignation

It's possible I guess because there are provisions in the bill committing to spending. Depends which way you look at it, we know the cost of pip is going to balloon by the end of the parliament and this bill was only going to mitigate that, it wasn't a cut at all so if the question is whether pip will cost more next year than last year the answer will be yes.

The problem for labour is now what wiggle room do they actually have in any of their major budgets? Health - none, welfare - none, etc.

So it's tax rises (beyond the usual fiscal drag tax rise), borrowing more for day to day spending or canning infrastructure spending.

55 percent of welfare budget is on pensioners

165 billion compared to the 5 billion savings they tried to scrounge off people in wheelchairs .....outrageous double standards from all of them


The triple lock is a disaster ..get rid of it or make it a double lock

Lots of room to save billions and billions there

The simple fact is a lot of people on welfare and disability are marginalised and dont have the power of the pensioners lobby ......its not only pensioners who have paid taxes and saved....the discrimination and finger pointing is hypocritical

Welfare payments being generally means tested might bean option with a far better grading .....

If someone is disabled but wealthy its just as stupid to award them 5k a year for taxis as it is to give a wealthy pensioner 200 quid towards an electricity bill which ends up being used for chocolates and sweets for the grandchildren

[Dorcus]

Re: Government Minister Resignation

55 percent of welfare budget is on pensioners

165 billion compared to the 5 billion savings they tried to scrounge off people in wheelchairs .....outrageous double standards from all of them


The triple lock is a disaster ..get rid of it or make it a double lock

Lots of room to save billions and billions there

The simple fact is a lot of people on welfare and disability are marginalised and dont have the power of the pensioners lobby ......its not only pensioners who have paid taxes and saved....the discrimination and finger pointing is hypocritical

Welfare payments being generally means tested might bean option with a far better grading .....

If someone is disabled but wealthy its just as stupid to award them 5k a year for taxis as it is to give a wealthy pensioner 200 quid towards an electricity bill which ends up being used for chocolates and sweets for the grandchildren

👍Totally agree! Means testing is the sensible way forward

[jon1959]

Re: Government Minister Resignation

I was listening to a podcast at the weekend where a pollster was saying Labour have lost three times as many supporters to the Lib Dems and Greens (and Independents) as they have to Reform - even though the Labour drop matches the Reform rise it has not in the main been a direct switch.

That trend will get bigger after the latest 'Welfare Reform' fiasco and the pledge to support the arms industry at a level not seen for three generations!