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  • #61
    Re: Government Minister Resignation

    Originally posted by jon1959 View Post
    I was listening to a podcast at the weekend where a pollster was saying Labour have lost three times as many supporters to the Lib Dems and Greens (and Independents) as they have to Reform - even though the Labour drop matches the Reform rise it has not in the main been a direct switch.

    That trend will get bigger after the latest 'Welfare Reform' fiasco and the pledge to support the arms industry at a level not seen for three generations!
    Agree and the probable outcome would be some kind of "rainbow coalition from hell" with strange bedfellows. We have a very divided country (World even?)

    Comment


    • #62
      Re: Government Minister Resignation

      Originally posted by jon1959 View Post
      I was listening to a podcast at the weekend where a pollster was saying Labour have lost three times as many supporters to the Lib Dems and Greens (and Independents) as they have to Reform - even though the Labour drop matches the Reform rise it has not in the main been a direct switch.

      That trend will get bigger after the latest 'Welfare Reform' fiasco and the pledge to support the arms industry at a level not seen for three generations!
      I listened to it as well. It all sounded bleeding obvious to me, but Starmer’s Labour don’t seem to understand that and are fixated by Reform - if there were an election today, I’d vote Green, Plaid or, possibly, Lib Dem and Labour should be far more worried about losing life time supporters like me than they are.

      Comment


      • #63
        Re: Government Minister Resignation

        John McDonnell's analysis of Labour's lack of leadership, vision, principle and basic competence is (I think) interesting.

        His description of the way the Labour Party has been hijacked and gutted is one I recognise. He also thinks there is a high chance of a palace coup against Starmer sooner rather than later.

        The welfare bill passed, but it was chaos. A party this dysfunctional and divided cannot escape the wrath of voters at the next election, says John McDonnell, former Labour shadow chancellor

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        • #64
          Re: Government Minister Resignation

          Originally posted by jon1959 View Post
          I was listening to a podcast at the weekend where a pollster was saying Labour have lost three times as many supporters to the Lib Dems and Greens (and Independents) as they have to Reform - even though the Labour drop matches the Reform rise it has not in the main been a direct switch.

          That trend will get bigger after the latest 'Welfare Reform' fiasco and the pledge to support the arms industry at a level not seen for three generations!


          At best a minority government or coalition

          I think thats wildly optimistic

          Unless starmer is kicked out , Dracula in a pink suit will be prime minister

          Comment


          • #65
            Re: Government Minister Resignation

            Originally posted by jon1959 View Post
            John McDonnell's analysis of Labour's lack of leadership, vision, principle and basic competence is (I think) interesting.

            His description of the way the Labour Party has been hijacked and gutted is one I recognise. He also thinks there is a high chance of a palace coup against Starmer sooner rather than later.

            https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...john-mcdonnell
            I quite like John McDonnell on a personal level, but Im not sure he's the best person to advise on hijacking parties and unity etc..or maybe he is?!

            Do you think there's any chance of a split? Starting to feel like there is a growing body of MPs on the left of the party who are happy to rebel. A good example of some parties having too large a majority to govern effectively really.

            I can't see any formal split but it's starting to feel like a party within a party

            Comment


            • #66
              Re: Government Minister Resignation

              Originally posted by jon1959 View Post
              I was listening to a podcast at the weekend where a pollster was saying Labour have lost three times as many supporters to the Lib Dems and Greens (and Independents) as they have to Reform - even though the Labour drop matches the Reform rise it has not in the main been a direct switch.

              That trend will get bigger after the latest 'Welfare Reform' fiasco and the pledge to support the arms industry at a level not seen for three generations!


              At best a minority government or coalition

              I think thats wildly optimistic

              Unless starmer is kicked out , Dracula in a pink suit will be prime minister

              Comment


              • #67
                Re: Government Minister Resignation

                Originally posted by JamesWales View Post
                I quite like John McDonnell on a personal level, but Im not sure he's the best person to advise on hijacking parties and unity etc..or maybe he is?!

                Do you think there's any chance of a split? Starting to feel like there is a growing body of MPs on the left of the party who are happy to rebel. A good example of some parties having too large a majority to govern effectively really.

                I can't see any formal split but it's starting to feel like a party within a party
                Leadership challenge first , see some teeth

                Then a split if nothing comes of it

                Comment


                • #68
                  Re: Government Minister Resignation

                  Originally posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
                  Leadership challenge first , see some teeth

                  Then a split if nothing comes of it
                  Who would you want to challenge him?

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Re: Government Minister Resignation

                    Originally posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
                    55 percent of welfare budget is on pensioners

                    165 billion compared to the 5 billion savings they tried to scrounge off people in wheelchairs .....outrageous double standards from all of them


                    The triple lock is a disaster ..get rid of it or make it a double lock

                    Lots of room to save billions and billions there

                    The simple fact is a lot of people on welfare and disability are marginalised and dont have the power of the pensioners lobby ......its not only pensioners who have paid taxes and saved....the discrimination and finger pointing is hypocritical

                    Welfare payments being generally means tested might bean option with a far better grading .....

                    If someone is disabled but wealthy its just as stupid to award them 5k a year for taxis as it is to give a wealthy pensioner 200 quid towards an electricity bill which ends up being used for chocolates and sweets for the grandchildren
                    You aren't going to find me disagreeing with much of that. Double lock might make next to no difference unless you strip out the right markers.

                    But the real point is that no government can do it. You saw what happened when they tried to do anything to the pensioner cohort, useful idiots working minwage jobs backed them up, people just don't understand how much the wealth of different demographics have shifted since triple lock was introduced.

                    The only lever the government has is fiscal drag on income tax because most people don't see it happening.

                    If pip is a payment to support additional spending due to a health condition then it needs to be woven into the NHS (with adequate information and resources). They can then make an assessment as to whether to issue treatment or a payment, it will force the NHS to evolve to a society where mental health is prevalent and provides a trusted layer.

                    The reality is that the majority of people on pip aren't working, whether they could be is obviously an individual thing but at a basic level, it has become an additional payment to people on uc predominantly and I don't think that was the intention.

                    And to answer your earlier point re: gdp, this bill was always about pre-empting and mitigating spending increases. I have no issue with people calling it a shambles but from a process perspective governments should be working with the future in mind and we rarely see it.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Re: Government Minister Resignation

                      Originally posted by JamesWales View Post
                      Who would you want to challenge him?
                      Stella Creasey, Peter Lamb , Meg Hillier

                      I wouldn't want any of the old school corbyn wing but I think they are so important for attacking the right and tory lite creeps currently ruling the roost

                      The people who have switched to liberal and green are not going to be won back by any starmer clones

                      Lisa Nandy is a real let down , I had high hopes for her several years ago

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Re: Government Minister Resignation

                        Originally posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
                        Stella Creasey, Peter Lamb , Meg Hillier

                        I wouldn't want any of the old school corbyn wing but I think they are so important for attacking the right and tory lite creeps currently ruling the roost

                        The people who have switched to liberal and green are not going to be won back by any starmer clones

                        Lisa Nandy is a real let down , I had high hopes for her several years ago
                        Interesting. I've never even heard of the bloke there. Stella Creasy seems alright but no PM.

                        I think they would all let you down. Thats the reality of government.

                        The money saved yesterday will now be found elsewhere. Probably from council tax. That means less money in people's pockets, less growth etc. There's no easy solutions and we are in such a mess, as it should be said, are many Western nations.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Re: Government Minister Resignation

                          Originally posted by JamesWales View Post
                          Who would you want to challenge him?
                          Stella Creasey, Peter Lamb , Meg Hillier

                          I wouldn't want any of the old school corbyn wing but I think they are so important for attacking the right and tory lite creeps currently ruling the roost

                          The people who have switched to liberal and green are not going to be won back by any starmer clones

                          Lisa Nandy is a real let down , I had high hopes for her several years ago

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Re: Government Minister Resignation

                            Originally posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
                            Stella Creasey, Peter Lamb , Meg Hillier

                            I wouldn't want any of the old school corbyn wing but I think they are so important for attacking the right and tory lite creeps currently ruling the roost

                            The people who have switched to liberal and green are not going to be won back by any starmer clones

                            Lisa Nandy is a real let down , I had high hopes for her several years ago
                            Yeah you told us this earlier 😂😉

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Re: Government Minister Resignation

                              Originally posted by JamesWales View Post
                              Interesting. I've never even heard of the bloke there. Stella Creasy seems alright but no PM.

                              I think they would all let you down. Thats the reality of government.

                              The money saved yesterday will now be found elsewhere. Probably from council tax. That means less money in people's pockets, less growth etc. There's no easy solutions and we are in such a mess, as it should be said, are many Western nations.
                              Meg Hillier would also be better

                              A tin of beans

                              Anything would be better than starmer

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Re: Government Minister Resignation

                                Starmer throws his Chancellor under the bus, but, incredibly for a PM with such a big majority, I’m beginning to think he could be gone by the next election.

                                Even Kemi Badenoch was able to land punches after prime minister failed to guarantee Rachel Reeves’s position

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