Pat McFadden

[Dorcus]

Re: Pat McFadden

Don't be daft

Sultana and Corbyn starting up this party for real socialism blah blah blah will even if its moderately successful ensure farage wins the next election by splitting an already fractured government

The way to sort out farage is to work within the labour party .....already in government .....to oust starmer and get rid of his crew

Starting a new party that weakens his main opposition is electoral suicide

I am staggered you cant see this

Its all very well having principles but this new party is about egos

How on earth is sultana proposing taking the fight to reform at the next election when her party will directly weaken any chance of doing that by chopping the legs off his closest threat ?

A real Socialist party is very likely to gain younger votes so I wouldn't dismiss it so lightly. The next government could well be a coat of many colours. I don't believe the current mass enthusiasm for Farage will last that long.

The next election will be about making strong alliances to defeat Farage and the electorate is now more savvy and more prepared to use tactical voting to defeat populist parties.

Both the Tories and increasingly Labour are becoming busted flushes. Reform may well be in pole position for now but come nearer the election I can foresee mass departures from voters of both the Tories and Labour to other parties. Some will leave for Reform but I think the majority will flee to Corbyn/Sultana, The Greens and the Lib Dems. Eventually Reform might find itself scuppered by a powerful and co ordinated electoral pincer movement. When the dust settles down we shall find an interesting realignment of UK politics.

[Dorcus]

Re: Pat McFadden

I don’t consider Starmer’s Labour to be my party, they’ve lost me, so the fracture has already occurred and I think it’s the same for many others who had voted Labour all of their lives.

I thought Tony Blair was bad but Starmer must go down in the annals as worst Labour leader of all time surely? What a legacy!

[jon1959]

Re: Pat McFadden

Don't be daft

Sultana and Corbyn starting up this party for real socialism blah blah blah will even if its moderately successful ensure farage wins the next election by splitting an already fractured government

The way to sort out farage is to work within the labour party .....already in government .....to oust starmer and get rid of his crew

Starting a new party that weakens his main opposition is electoral suicide

I am staggered you cant see this

Its all very well having principles but this new party is about egos

How on earth is sultana proposing taking the fight to reform at the next election when her party will directly weaken any chance of doing that by chopping the legs off his closest threat ?

Are you working 'within the Labour Party.... to oust Starmer and get rid of his crew', Sludge?

You are surely following your own advice. How's that going?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Pat McFadden

Are you working 'within the Labour Party.... to oust Starmer and get rid of his crew', Sludge?

You are surely following your own advice. How's that going?

I tell you how it's going

In the absence of any real moves as yet to topple him I have recently attended a stop reform at any costs meeting locally where Plaid, labour , liberals , greens and even a few moderate tories both elected and just members of the public agreed to encourage people to vote tactically

And just two weeks ago I had the fortune of bumping into my local newly elected MP on a beach whilst fishing

I told him he and his party needed to get rid of starmer or he's going to be out of a job and we will have farage as prime minister

What are you doing or have you ripped up your membership?

[Dorcus]

Re: Pat McFadden

I tell you how it's going

In the absence of any real moves as yet to topple him I have recently attended a stop reform at any costs meeting locally where Plaid, labour , liberals , greens and even a few moderate tories both elected and just members of the public agreed to encourage people to vote tactically

And just two weeks ago I had the fortune of bumping into my local newly elected MP on a beach whilst fishing

I told him he and his party needed to get rid of starmer or he's going to be out of a job and we will have farage as prime minister

What are you doing or have you ripped up your membership?

Like I said it'll be tactical voting, but not as we know it Jim.

[jon1959]

Re: Pat McFadden

I tell you how it's going

In the absence of any real moves as yet to topple him I have recently attended a stop reform at any costs meeting locally where Plaid, labour , liberals , greens and even a few moderate tories both elected and just members of the public agreed to encourage people to vote tactically

And just two weeks ago I had the fortune of bumping into my local newly elected MP on a beach whilst fishing

I told him he and his party needed to get rid of starmer or he's going to be out of a job and we will have farage as prime minister

What are you doing or have you ripped up your membership?

Ripped up my membership 4 years ago. Actually nearer 5 years ago - but the Labour Party recorded me as a member for another year despite endless emails to the local and national party (and the cancelation of my membership payments).

I was a Labour Party member for 32 years of my adult life - and did the hard yards. No more. My political energy (such as it is) now goes into Palestine/Gaza and facing off with the Tommy Robinson fan clubs - in Sheffield and London.

I was just curious to see how you were going about changing Labour from the inside. It seems you're not. Telling your local MP to get rid of Starmer doesn't count as working within the Labour Party. It is venting, although there is a place for that.

But getting involved in any 'stop Reform' movement is good. I'm sure Sultana and Polanski would agree with you.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Pat McFadden

Ripped up my membership 4 years ago. Actually nearer 5 years ago - but the Labour Party recorded me as a member for another year despite endless emails to the local and national party (and the cancelation of my membership payments).

I was a Labour Party member for 32 years of my adult life - and did the hard yards. No more. My political energy (such as it is) now goes into Palestine/Gaza and facing off with the Tommy Robinson fan clubs - in Sheffield and London.

I was just curious to see how you were going about changing Labour from the inside. It seems you're not. Telling your local MP to get rid of Starmer doesn't count as working within the Labour Party. It is venting, although there is a place for that.

But getting involved in any 'stop Reform' movement is good. I'm sure Sultana and Polanski would agree with you.

Being as I am not and never have been a member of the labour party my opinion that the party itself needs to change from within....in this case get rid of starmer ....is fairly obviously a rant

I think Sultana would be far better off continuing to be a pro Palestinian MP within the labour party than setting up a knitting club that occasionally pulls up a few trees

Its not going to do anything except massage a few egos and reduce the power of the as we stand biggest political party in direct competition with Farage

Thats absolutely reckless

Even if Sultanas and Corbyns party morphed together with the greens and the liberals their combined block vote would be way less than Reform and probably on a par with Labour's current polling

So a complete waste of time for most of us who want to stop reform

I wont be voting in a general election on what's happening in Palestine ....its dreadful but thats going to be going till the world stops turning .....I will be voting to stop the rise to power of a far right government

No way will I blow my democratic right on Corbyn and his crew unless its certain doing do so will defeat Reform

I admire people's optimism but thats a pipe dream

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Pat McFadden

Being as I am not and never have been a member of the labour party my opinion that the party itself needs to change from within....in this case get rid of starmer ....is fairly obviously a rant

I think Sultana would be far better off continuing to be a pro Palestinian MP within the labour party than setting up a knitting club that occasionally pulls up a few trees

Its not going to do anything except massage a few egos and reduce the power of the as we stand biggest political party in direct competition with Farage

Thats absolutely reckless

Even if Sultanas and Corbyns party morphed together with the greens and the liberals their combined block vote would be way less than Reform and probably on a par with Labour's current polling

So a complete waste of time for most of us who want to stop reform

I wont be voting in a general election on what's happening in Palestine ....its dreadful but thats going to be going till the world stops turning .....I will be voting to stop the rise to power of a far right government

No way will I blow my democratic right on Corbyn and his crew unless its certain doing do so will defeat Reform

I admire people's optimism but thats a pipe dream

I think Sultana and Corbyn would still have been working within the Labour Party if the genius of a leader, backed by “advisors” who stand for nothing, hadn’t effectively chucked them out of the party.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Pat McFadden

I think Sultana and Corbyn would still have been working within the Labour Party if the genius of a leader, backed by “advisors” who stand for nothing, hadn’t effectively chucked them out of the party.

I think the only person Corbyn is interested in is Corbyn

Sultana is all over the shop and a liability although ironic that it was another liability, starmer , who bombed her out

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Pat McFadden

Exactly, Starmer plummets in the polls and his reaction is to tack ever rightward. The large majority of what is now called the progressive vote donÂ’t want to be governed by what weÂ’ve had in power since 2010 - Starmer doesnÂ’t seem to realise that the days of Labour taking the votes of the left for granted have gone and right wingers arenÂ’t going to make up that shortfall because, no matter how much he appeals to them to do so, theyÂ’ll never do it because, just like IÂ’d never vote Tory, theyÂ’ll never bring themselves to back Labour.

This is all well and good Bob but the issues everyone thinks he has moved right on i.e. migration and welfare spending are both real and ongoing concerns that need to be tackled imo. I wasn't particularly concerned about migration as an issue until I realised how effectively it can be used as a tool to push us towards a place I really don't want us to be, it was already used as a scare tactic to convince people to vote for Brexit which has been a disaster..

Then as for welfare spending, as far as I could see, the labour rebels fell into the following categories a) recognised the issues on the horizon but didn't have the stomach for it, b) recognise it but at all costs do not want to talk about benefit spending, because they see that as a Tory thing to do or c) campaign on principles and ideals and don't really understand numbers or the opportunity cost of spending more and more on welfare.

The standard response is usually 'WEALTH TAX NOW' and that is fine, I agree that we need to fundamentally shift how we collect taxes but that can't always be the response. It takes a few minutes of googling about projections around PIP, Motability scheme and the rest to realise that the benefit system is shifting away from being a safety net and helping hand to something far more widespread and providing a level and type of support that is truly baffling. Add in the anecdotal stuff around people who clearly should be receiving support and people who frankly clearly shouldn't and it starts to look like the whole system is broken.

Add in the fact that lots of the people rebelling about benefits were also lukewarm at best about getting rid of a universal WFA and a pattern is emerging, they just oppose everything, no matter whether it is right or not. If you are of the view that the UK is in a pretty precarious position economically (and I am) then that is a worrying trend.

[JamesWales]

Re: Pat McFadden

I'm not a Starmer fan per se, but what do people on the Left want him to do? Specifically. He's most likely not doing certain things because they wouldn't work. As mentioned above, people shout wealth tax as if it's some of that expanding foam that will fill any gap and create no issues. What do people want on immigration? Is 750,000 a year not enough?!

[Heathblue]

Re: Pat McFadden

The Radical left arguing amongst themselves, thread bookmarked :hehe:

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Pat McFadden

I'm not a Starmer fan per se, but what do people on the Left want him to do? Specifically. He's most likely not doing certain things because they wouldn't work. As mentioned above, people shout wealth tax as if it's some of that expanding foam that will fill any gap and create no issues. What do people want on immigration? Is 750,000 a year not enough?!

All that he talked about during the election campaign was “change” - fifteen months later, we’re still waiting to see any evidence of it.the only change there’s been is that the rhetoric has sometimes being to the right of the previous Government.

[JamesWales]

Re: Pat McFadden

All that he talked about during the election campaign was “change” - fifteen months later, we’re still waiting to see any evidence of it.the only change there’s been is that the rhetoric has sometimes being to the right of the previous Government.

My argument all along was that change won't be coming because they never identified the problems. They just blamed the Tories for the Tories sake. The lack of progress is depressing, and I think tbh most things have gone backwards in the last year.

Im just curious what people really do expect and wish for in terms of viable changes?

The only thing going for them at the moment is that they are a year in. Most reasonable people understand it takes some time to turn anything around, but with each passing month that argument gets weaker.

[Dorcus]

Re: Pat McFadden

All that he talked about during the election campaign was “change” - fifteen months later, we’re still waiting to see any evidence of it.the only change there’s been is that the rhetoric has sometimes being to the right of the previous Government.

Same old, same old from the right wingers. They always rely upon bullshit baffling brains! Now a Wealth Tax is desperately focused upon as some form of chimera! Many of us have heard all this faux wisdom so many many times before. It's a hory old device to keep the hoi polloi in check.

Starmer is basically a wannabe technocrat bereft of vision and lacking the talent or charisma to make a mark. His only claim to fame is that he was the last man standing after the previous Johnson/Truss/Sunak Tory train wreck administrations and got elevated beyond his ability to PM by default. History will not judge him well.