Manchester terrorist attack.

[Dorcus]

Re: Manchester terrorist attack.

Oh I am so sorry I posted factual information. I was not saying in my view it is not technically a genocide. I was pointing out that the United Nations position is not clear cut. Nothing bizarre about that. Puzzled why you think that.

This is the second time you have put words in my mouth. Please stop doing it

Next time I will ask your permission

Often we are big enough, old enough and ugly enough to see for ourselves and know right from wrong without political institutions making up our minds for us. If it looks like a duck, it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck then it's probably a duck

[Elwood Blues]

Re: Manchester terrorist attack.

It being "unsavoury" is entirely your own personal view though. Thankfully not everyone agrees.

True. But not everyone disagrees either.

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Manchester terrorist attack.

When have I defended someone chanting "migrants out"? I would criticize someone labelling someone racist just for wanting lower immigration, of course but thats a different example.

And I think it's absolutely fair to criticise people chanting about the end of the only Jewish state on the day of a synagogue attack because I think that is a sign and slogan of radicalized people, and takes us much farther from peace at the same time.

That may be why they are not so enthusiastic. But they also rightly talk about the loss of lives and a form of peace achieves that.

Responded quickly before - further point.. You have moved the goalposts there a tad, I wasn't really saying you 'defended them' but I think based on previous threads that you would respond negatively to someone calling them all racist. Whereas in this thread, you are without context happy to say a large proportion of pro-palestine protestors are 'deeply anti-Semitic'.

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Manchester terrorist attack.

The crux of the debate around whether it was insensitive to protest is that the IHRA definition of Anti-Semitism is a contradictory to the government/others position on the validity of the protests in the aftermath of the terrorist attack. Simultaneously..

IHRA - British Jews shouldn't be associated/held responsible for the actions of Israel = complete separation, good they aren't responsible, they are British, not the Israel government.

Terrorist event kills two British Jews, 'it is insensitive to protest against Israel in the aftermath' = not separated, intrinsically linked to such a great extent that this will feel like an attack on them.

Make it make sense.

[Dorcus]

Re: Manchester terrorist attack.

True. But not everyone disagrees either.

You're right, there's always some wherever you are

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Manchester terrorist attack.

You and your CCMB massive put someone into power who has increased funding to the regime. Sit down and shut the **** up.

You daft little jelly

[JamesWales]

Re: Manchester terrorist attack.

Just two points on that load of nonsense:

1. I have been on 14 of the national Palestine marches and joined the chants of 'From the river to the sea...' every time. It is a 50 year old chant/demand reclaimed from Bibi Netanyahu who used it to describe his plans for a Greater Israel based on the expulsion (ethnic cleansing) of Palestinians. His map of Israel without any Palestinian territories that he waved around at the UN General Assembly put it back centre stage. It is a chant calling for peace and justice in Palestinian between the River Jordan and the Mediterranean Sea. That is why Quakers, Lib Dems and anti Zionist Jews are also happy to chant it. Jewish platform speakers at the end of the marches regularly start or finish their words with 'From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free'.

2. Every single march has has 'Ceasefire Now' as a major demand - in chants, on placards, on banners and as a focus for the platform speeches. The calls for peace are deafening. As someone who claims to have been on three marches in London 20 years ago (why is that relevant?) and seems to get the rest of your opinions from the Daily Mail, your wilful misrepresentation of the Palestine solidarity marches is not surprising but it is depressing.

You really come across as someone who couldn't give a shit.

And if you are marching around chanting "from the river to the sea" you absolutely are part of the problem, not the solution.

[JamesWales]

Re: Manchester terrorist attack.

Responded quickly before - further point.. You have moved the goalposts there a tad, I wasn't really saying you 'defended them' but I think based on previous threads that you would respond negatively to someone calling them all racist. Whereas in this thread, you are without context happy to say a large proportion of pro-palestine protestors are 'deeply anti-Semitic'.

There is a racist minority on matches labelled "far-right". And there is an antisemitic minority on matches labelled "pro-palestine". That is the truth based on everything I have seen and experienced. The difference is some seem unwilling to accept it

[jon1959]

Re: Manchester terrorist attack.

You really come across as someone who couldn't give a shit.

And if you are marching around chanting "from the river to the sea" you absolutely are part of the problem, not the solution.

You are an embarrassment!

[delmbox]

Re: Manchester terrorist attack.

List in the Guardian today of all the children killed in Israel's Gaza offensive, 18457 at time of writing

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2025/oct/08/young-lives-cut-short-on-an-unimaginable-scale-the-18457-children-on-gazas-list-of-war-dead

[jon1959]

Re: Manchester terrorist attack.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/R-G9hpeCzGo

[JamesWales]

Re: Manchester terrorist attack.

You are an embarrassment!

No, you just come up with excuse after excuse, and cannot accept any issue with the marches whatsoever, despite it making groups fearful, despite mass support for proscribed groups, despite them occuring on the same day as synagogue terrorist attacks, despite chants for the eradication of Israel, despite death to the IDF chants, police being assaulted. Its a minority, but the failure to recognize the issues speak volumes.

You cannot seem to fathom any of this as being remotely an issue because you aren't personally impacted and it's a cause you personally support.

[JamesWales]

Re: Manchester terrorist attack.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/R-G9hpeCzGo

This is the problem. You only listen to people you agree with.

It doesn't mean the same to everyone. To many it means the eradication of Israel, the end of a two state solution, the end of a Jewish homeland etc.

You just don't acknowledge it. You aren't oblivious to it, you seem to just not care and I think that's worse.

[jon1959]

Re: Manchester terrorist attack.

This is the problem. You only listen to people you agree with.

It doesn't mean the same to everyone. To many it means the eradication of Israel, the end of a two state solution, the end of a Jewish homeland etc.

You just don't acknowledge it. You aren't oblivious to it, you seem to just not care and I think that's worse.

Well, I agree with peace and justice in Israel-Palestine, and unlike you I don't see that as a problem.

I also - all the time - listen to, and read, and watch the opinions of people I don't agree with because they dominate the mainstream media and the parliamentary commentary on events in Israel-Palestine and the solidarity movement in this country.

You say 'to it means the eradication of Israel, the end of a two state solution, the end of a Jewish homeland etc.' It certainly means the end of apartheid and for most people it means either two states co-existing side by side in peace and with security and justice, or it means the end of a Jewish supremacist state and the creating of one democratic state with equal rights for all citizens. It doesn't mean an ethno-religious Greater Israel where Palestinian arabs are either expelled or treated as second or third class citizens. That is the real problem for Israel propagandists with the chant. It offers a different vision of the future - one embraced by many Jewish people in the UK, the USA and even some in Israel who reject racism and genocide.

[stevo]

Re: Manchester terrorist attack.

This is the problem. You only listen to people you agree with.

It doesn't mean the same to everyone. To many it means the eradication of Israel, the end of a two state solution, the end of a Jewish homeland etc.

You just don't acknowledge it. You aren't oblivious to it, you seem to just not care and I think that's worse.

We could say the same about you.