So Who Replaces Starmer

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: So Who Replaces Starmer

The biggest chunk of welfare is the insane triple lock

50 percent of the budget

But we wont talk about that

Unless you are saying we do ?

Lets hear it then

[MOZZER2]

Re: So Who Replaces Starmer

Most welfare spending is pensions ....due to the triple lock

Dont be fooled into killing the poor so the fat old gits can swan about in benidorm

Been trying to get some real figures on this but all i can find is this .maybe eric has more of a breakdown

Welfare is the largest single component of "annually managed expenditure" (demand-led spending) and is driven heavily by:Pensioner benefits (~55% of the total, with State Pension alone at ~£146 billion).
Working-age and disability benefits (including a sharp rise in incapacity and health-related claims).

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: So Who Replaces Starmer

Been trying to get some real figures on this but all i can find is this .maybe eric has more of a breakdown

Welfare is the largest single component of "annually managed expenditure" (demand-led spending) and is driven heavily by:Pensioner benefits (~55% of the total, with State Pension alone at ~£146 billion).
Working-age and disability benefits (including a sharp rise in incapacity and health-related claims).

The fact that 55 percent of ...welfare ....is pensions .....is overlooked entirely not only by those wanting our votes but by plenty on here

Eric being a prime example

[Eric Cartman]

Re: So Who Replaces Starmer

The fact that 55 percent of ...welfare ....is pensions .....is overlooked entirely not only by those wanting our votes but by plenty on here

Eric being a prime example

I replied to you sludge! agreeing that triple lock needs to be replaced. Although I think it's such a surface level argument though, replaced by what and with what intention (what is the purpose of the state pension now?). It's proponents will say 'its worse than other countries' but it is a fundamentally different system with different contributions.

[jon1959]

Re: So Who Replaces Starmer

[Eric Cartman]

Re: So Who Replaces Starmer

The fact that 55 percent of ...welfare ....is pensions .....is overlooked entirely not only by those wanting our votes but by plenty on here

Eric being a prime example

I thought I would go into a bit more detail about why I care about this since you've done a hit and run smear.

Essentially by being 'nice' and ignoring the problems you are actively hurting a generation. Putting aside the reasons, higher diagnosis, behavioural shift (screens, phones, instant access to everything and an inability to escape), lockdowns affecting development at a key age - everyone has an agenda - the data is so clear it's impossible to ignore, more kids are landing in adulthood with mental health and behavioural diagnosis and settling for a life sitting on benefits. The right will tell you it's because benefits pay them so much and we need to reduce it, the left don't even think it's a problem. I don't primarily see it as an economic problem (although it will be), I see two things. 1) if this isn't acknowledged and solved by the left, it will be a wedge issue for elections to come for the right and since their answer is simpler (cut it off), they will win and the end result is probably significantly worse than what happened in the 2010s and 2) even if we just keep paying the bill these young adults are less likely to live a fulfilled and happy life.

The other, smaller part of the equation is abuse of the system, that becomes fundamentally more difficult when you are dealing with hidden conditions. The system was not built for this and will not survive it.

So, I see the government data about the kind of claims that are increasing amongst youngsters, and through my work I see the tidal wave coming through the ehcp/send support system, I see the job market drying because of AI, I see the vultures circling who want to be able to pay young adults next to nothing to 'give them experience'. But I see no answers from the left to any of this other than 'its mean to question anything' so let's turn our heads away and whine about something easier.

While I am here, you could do with stopping seeing politics through a theatrical lense (who made the best speech) and start to see it more through a policy lense (with a focus on what is actually achievable in current circumstances Vs what is just fairytale nonsense to get into power).

As for answers to how we fix the above I don't know but you can't fix it if you don't acknowledge it's existence, and I know I would rather labour, the Lib Dems or the greens acknowledge it and try to fix it rather than the alternative so it's constantly frustrating to see the issues avoided like the plague by people who will likely vote for these parties.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: So Who Replaces Starmer

I thought I would go into a bit more detail about why I care about this since you've done a hit and run smear.

Essentially by being 'nice' and ignoring the problems you are actively hurting a generation. Putting aside the reasons, higher diagnosis, behavioural shift (screens, phones, instant access to everything and an inability to escape), lockdowns affecting development at a key age - everyone has an agenda - the data is so clear it's impossible to ignore, more kids are landing in adulthood with mental health and behavioural diagnosis and settling for a life sitting on benefits. The right will tell you it's because benefits pay them so much and we need to reduce it, the left don't even think it's a problem. I don't primarily see it as an economic problem (although it will be), I see two things. 1) if this isn't acknowledged and solved by the left, it will be a wedge issue for elections to come for the right and since their answer is simpler (cut it off), they will win and the end result is probably significantly worse than what happened in the 2010s and 2) even if we just keep paying the bill these young adults are less likely to live a fulfilled and happy life.

The other, smaller part of the equation is abuse of the system, that becomes fundamentally more difficult when you are dealing with hidden conditions. The system was not built for this and will not survive it.

So, I see the government data about the kind of claims that are increasing amongst youngsters, and through my work I see the tidal wave coming through the ehcp/send support system, I see the job market drying because of AI, I see the vultures circling who want to be able to pay young adults next to nothing to 'give them experience'. But I see no answers from the left to any of this other than 'its mean to question anything' so let's turn our heads away and whine about something easier.

While I am here, you could do with stopping seeing politics through a theatrical lense (who made the best speech) and start to see it more through a policy lense (with a focus on what is actually achievable in current circumstances Vs what is just fairytale nonsense to get into power).

As for answers to how we fix the above I don't know but you can't fix it if you don't acknowledge it's existence, and I know I would rather labour, the Lib Dems or the greens acknowledge it and try to fix it rather than the alternative so it's constantly frustrating to see the issues avoided like the plague by people who will likely vote for these parties.

You deserved it as all you ever go on about is welfare ....meaning the skivvers .....and not welfare ....including the greedy pension mob

[Wales-Bales]

Re: So Who Replaces Starmer

You know he's done when Mr Pie speaks!

[Eric Cartman]

Re: So Who Replaces Starmer

You deserved it as all you ever go on about is welfare ....meaning the skivvers .....and not welfare ....including the greedy pension mob

Because it's something that the left/centre left gets completely wrong time and time again. As per usual you can't find your two brain cells to rub together to actually answer any of the points I made, I would go as far as saying you don't actually give a shit about people or the effect of policy on people.

I posted a thread about student loans not long ago, something that the left should care about as it's hindering economic growth by putting a massive burden on young people and I got zero engagement from the people who I expected to and a couple of interesting responses from people who I thought wouldn't give a ****.

Why would I post about something we all know is batshit like triple lock? So we can all agree in one big circle jerk and pat each other on the back?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: So Who Replaces Starmer

Because it's something that the left/centre left gets completely wrong time and time again. As per usual you can't find your two brain cells to rub together to actually answer any of the points I made, I would go as far as saying you don't actually give a shit about people or the effect of policy on people.

I posted a thread about student loans not long ago, something that the left should care about as it's hindering economic growth by putting a massive burden on young people and I got zero engagement from the people who I expected to and a couple of interesting responses from people who I thought wouldn't give a ****.

Why would I post about something we all know is batshit like triple lock? So we can all agree in one big circle jerk and pat each other on the back?

This is a waste of time , you are doing it again .....never mind triple lock , its crazy ......lets bash the restbof welfare ....because we know thats a lot easier to do

Need money for bombs ? ......slash welfare spending

Invisible illnesses are messing up the system ? .......what a load of cobblers ......it wasnt designed for that ? .....more cobblers

[Eric Cartman]

Re: So Who Replaces Starmer

This is a waste of time , you are doing it again .....never mind triple lock , its crazy ......lets bash the restbof welfare ....because we know thats a lot easier to do

Need money for bombs ? ......slash welfare spending

Invisible illnesses are messing up the system ? .......what a load of cobblers ......it wasnt designed for that ? .....more cobblers

You can throw a toddler tantrum and smear me all you like sludge but the trends and forecasts are clear and significant. The vast majority of PIP claimants are out of work (not the intention), the rates of new claimants and young claimants whose primary condition is mental/'behavioural' is far far higher than ever before. The lead in data from education shows that this is only going to get more pronounced and the system was not designed for it.

When we talk about mental health, depression and anxiety I wanted it treated and those people to live fulfilling productive lives, not be shoved onto benefits at 18 and ignored. Neurodevelopmental conditions like autism or learning disabilities, it's obviously not so cut and dry but the same principle applies to many. I line managed a guy with autism a few years back. He was brilliant at his job as long as he was kept away from anything public facing, when I left that role, he was fired because he pissed off a few parents and an influential head teacher because he just didn't understand how to communicate with people, thankfully he found work in the IT department a few months later. He loved his job.

I specifically don't talk about this issue in the way you are trying to assign to me, 'skivers', 'scroungers'. There are people who are abusing the system (my brother in law's sister is one of those) but the vast majority of people fall into either 1) cannot work and 2) could work and are actively being let down by the system.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: So Who Replaces Starmer

You can throw a toddler tantrum and smear me all you like sludge but the trends and forecasts are clear and significant. The vast majority of PIP claimants are out of work (not the intention), the rates of new claimants and young claimants whose primary condition is mental/'behavioural' is far far higher than ever before. The lead in data from education shows that this is only going to get more pronounced and the system was not designed for it.

When we talk about mental health, depression and anxiety I wanted it treated and those people to live fulfilling productive lives, not be shoved onto benefits at 18 and ignored. Neurodevelopmental conditions like autism or learning disabilities, it's obviously not so cut and dry but the same principle applies to many. I line managed a guy with autism a few years back. He was brilliant at his job as long as he was kept away from anything public facing, when I left that role, he was fired because he pissed off a few parents and an influential head teacher because he just didn't understand how to communicate with people, thankfully he found work in the IT department a few months later. He loved his job.

I specifically don't talk about this issue in the way you are trying to assign to me, 'skivers', 'scroungers'. There are people who are abusing the system (my brother in law's sister is one of those) but the vast majority of people fall into either 1) cannot work and 2) could work and are actively being let down by the system.

PIP isnt an in work or out of work benefit .....it replaced the old disability allowance

This is more of the same from you , a sort of liz kendal diatribe

U are obsessed with the cost of welfare without nailing the biggest cost ....pensions

Deal with that and then working age , out of work and disability benefits could be chipped away but all we have is cut welfare .....and thats because most of those on it dont fight back like the grey haired mob on the golf course

[Eric Cartman]

Re: So Who Replaces Starmer

PIP isnt an in work or out of work benefit .....it replaced the old disability allowance

This is more of the same from you , a sort of liz kendal diatribe

U are obsessed with the cost of welfare without nailing the biggest cost ....pensions

Deal with that and then working age , out of work and disability benefits could be chipped away but all we have is cut welfare .....and thats because most of those on it dont fight back like the grey haired mob on the golf course

I'm absolutely not obsessed with the cost of welfare, im obsessed with the demographic/condition change, and what are the outcomes? Primarily young people with the potential of a bright future, let down by a system that allows them to take the easy route that will probably leave them miserable and feeling useless.

I've already said I'd end triple lock right now, it's done its job. But your framing is just disappointing, you shouldn't be looking to end it because of 'greedy pensioners', you should be looking to end it because it's achieved the aim of getting the state pension up to a reasonable basic payment within the context of the intention of the UK pension system - state pension isn't designed to be someone's sole income in retirement but you do also have to think of the situations where it is.

As for pip, yeah exactly, so it should be concerning that 80+% of new claimants are not in work, that is an indicator in and of ifself. Its meant to deal with the extra costs associated with a disability and in an ideal world, it should help people to live a productive self sufficient independent life where possible. When you take the two things together, almost all new claimants are out of work, and the rate of new claimants whose primary condition is mental or behavioural has grown quickly so we have a situation where we have a cohort of youngsters who have anxiety/depression, or lower level neuro divergence who are entering adulthood with no pathway to working, self sufficiency or true independence and no expectation from many that they should or can be. That is not a system that is working. My original point in all of this is that the left should be fixing this (because they will do it in a way that puts the person first) but they don't even see it as a problem.

It's okay if you don't want to (or can't) engage in a sensible way, but don't accuse me of saying things that I haven't or thinking things that I don't.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: So Who Replaces Starmer

I'm absolutely not obsessed with the cost of welfare, im obsessed with the demographic/condition change, and what are the outcomes? Primarily young people with the potential of a bright future, let down by a system that allows them to take the easy route that will probably leave them miserable and feeling useless.

I've already said I'd end triple lock right now, it's done its job. But your framing is just disappointing, you shouldn't be looking to end it because of 'greedy pensioners', you should be looking to end it because it's achieved the aim of getting the state pension up to a reasonable basic payment within the context of the intention of the UK pension system - state pension isn't designed to be someone's sole income in retirement but you do also have to think of the situations where it is.

As for pip, yeah exactly, so it should be concerning that 80+% of new claimants are not in work, that is an indicator in and of ifself. Its meant to deal with the extra costs associated with a disability and in an ideal world, it should help people to live a productive self sufficient independent life where possible. When you take the two things together, almost all new claimants are out of work, and the rate of new claimants whose primary condition is mental or behavioural has grown quickly so we have a situation where we have a cohort of youngsters who have anxiety/depression, or lower level neuro divergence who are entering adulthood with no pathway to working, self sufficiency or true independence and no expectation from many that they should or can be. That is not a system that is working. My original point in all of this is that the left should be fixing this (because they will do it in a way that puts the person first) but they don't even see it as a problem.

It's okay if you don't want to (or can't) engage in a sensible way, but don't accuse me of saying things that I haven't or thinking things that I don't.

Thou doth protest too much

In your case about welfare ( minus the pensioners )

You are going to have to do better than.... no sane party is going to jettison that because of the votes ....and concentrate on the autistic youngsters and those with polio who are easy targets

[Heathblue]

Re: So Who Replaces Starmer

Thou doth protest too much

In your case about welfare ( minus the pensioners )

You are going to have to do better than.... no sane party is going to jettison that because of the votes ....and concentrate on the autistic youngsters and those with polio who are easy targets

CCMB heavyweight Lefties going at each other, love it
unlike yourself (and myself) Eric puts effort into his posts with reasoned points, I categorize James W similar from the right perspective. Here i am, stuck in the middle with who who who ? :-)