Another Brexit Bonus

[lardy]

Re: Another Brexit Bonus

Yes, although there are numerous definitions of the word 'powerful'. Pretty certain a US passport is pretty powerful in certain circumstances and having a British passport is probably more powerful than a Singaporean one in certain situations abroad. As mentioned below, this is the reference to power in terms of visa free travel, which is useful more than powerful, but there we go. That's why i was asking

https://www.onlinevisa.com/news/worl...%202nd%20place.

Still, it looks like the EU passports have visa free access to between 182 and 190 countries. Great.

The UK has visa free access to 187, so is more POWERFUL than a Belgian by the looks of it. POWER!!

The loss of the freedom to automatically live wherever you want in the EU is a loss of Brexit. I'm not sure the above is that dramatic. I wonder what the single country the Dutch can have visa free travel to that we can't is for example?

Powerful, in the context of passports, also means things like consular support in case of emergencies as well as visa-free travel.

[JamesWales]

Re: Another Brexit Bonus

Powerful, in the context of passports, also means things like consular support in case of emergencies as well as visa-free travel.

Yeah that's what I think too. Essentially a passport for a powerful country is always a powerful passport. I think I would rather be stuck in a tricky situation abroad with an American passport over one from Luxembourg or Singapore.

I agree though, the number of Visa free countries it allowed access to is also part of the mix however, and at 187 for the UK, versus a near identical average for the EU and only six below Japan at 193, I think we can all be reasonably satisfied. Would be interesting to know what those countries are mind.

Probably bigger issues for most of us to worry about.

[lardy]

Re: Another Brexit Bonus

Yeah that's what I think too. Essentially a passport for a powerful country is always a powerful passport. I think I would rather be stuck in a tricky situation abroad with an American passport over one from Luxembourg or Singapore.

I agree though, the number of Visa free countries it allowed access to is also part of the mix however, and at 187 for the UK, versus a near identical average for the EU and only six below Japan at 193, I think we can all be reasonably satisfied. Would be interesting to know what those countries are mind.

Probably bigger issues for most of us to worry about.

Well it depends where. If you're in China or Brazil, the Singapore passport is better than an American one. That's what its counting, the number of countries where it's better.

I would have thought this was your kind of thing. Analysis and data with a clear and easy conclusion, rather than just gut feeling.

[JamesWales]

Re: Another Brexit Bonus

Well it depends where. If you're in China or Brazil, the Singapore passport is better than an American one. That's what its counting, the number of countries where it's better.

I would have thought this was your kind of thing. Analysis and data with a clear and easy conclusion, rather than just gut feeling.

It is my kind of thing! And I approve of the liberal use of flags here..

https://www.onlinevisa.com/news/worl...%202nd%20place.

I'm just not sure that powerful is the best wording when you are assessing one particular element of a passport - a very important one, but there are other roles a passport serves too, which is why I asked whether it considered those.

Anyway, it is interesting!

[Dorcus]

Re: Another Brexit Bonus

This is breathtaking:

JRM: "The point I was making was that the only delays would be caused by the French if they decided not to allow British people to pass through freely. They have decided to do that".

He obviously wanted an end to free movement, except of course for us Brits. Really sums up the attitude of him and the other Brexiters in a nutshell.

Anyway, at least he has got there eventually with his admission over the delays. Only James left now

It reminds me of the Alamo.

[Rjk]

Re: Another Brexit Bonus

Yeah that's what I think too. Essentially a passport for a powerful country is always a powerful passport. I think I would rather be stuck in a tricky situation abroad with an American passport over one from Luxembourg or Singapore.

I agree though, the number of Visa free countries it allowed access to is also part of the mix however, and at 187 for the UK, versus a near identical average for the EU and only six below Japan at 193, I think we can all be reasonably satisfied. Would be interesting to know what those countries are mind.

Probably bigger issues for most of us to worry about.

I guess it's not the actual numbers that are concerning at this stage, more the trend if that continues.

we were able to visit more countries than any other nation without a visa, now we are 13th on that list.
what will be the situation in 10 years?

[JamesWales]

Re: Another Brexit Bonus

This is breathtaking:

JRM: "The point I was making was that the only delays would be caused by the French if they decided not to allow British people to pass through freely. They have decided to do that".

He obviously wanted an end to free movement, except of course for us Brits. Really sums up the attitude of him and the other Brexiters in a nutshell.

Anyway, at least he has got there eventually with his admission over the delays. Only James left now

Here we go!

"Freedom of movement" is something of a colloquialism. It didn't mean there were never checks anywhere. Some countries are outside of Schengen, so there was. You always needed your passport to fly abroad etc and it was always checked. Now it is stamped, but it needn't be. Thats a choice (some) EU countries have made I believe. They don't have to. Mines been stamped twice. It took no longer at all. A second at most.

Even if all the queues were caused by Brexit (they weren't) as opposed to anything else, they didn't occur on the second weekend of the first full summer holiday post covid and leaving the EU, which rather suggests that if people put their minds to it, then whatever problems are created can be solved within a week anyway.

It's hardly the most compelling reason to have remained in the EU is it.

[JamesWales]

Re: Another Brexit Bonus

I guess it's not the actual numbers that are concerning at this stage, more the trend if that continues.

we were able to visit more countries than any other nation without a visa, now we are 13th on that list.
what will be the situation in 10 years?

Statistically speaking, thats a fair point, although I think we all know in practice that it's unlikely to fall at that same rate. As we can see below, the three most 'powerful' passports in the world are non-EU ones. The power of different EU nations varies considerably and is about on a par with the UK, which is more 'powerful' than several EU countries, including Belgium.

Personally I suspect the level will stay the same, dependent upon diplomatic relations more than anything

https://www.onlinevisa.com/news/worlds-most-powerful-passports/#:~:text=In%202022%2C%20the%20most%20powerful%20passports%20in%20the,and%20South%20Korea%20are%20tied%20for%202nd%20place

[lardy]

Re: Another Brexit Bonus

It is my kind of thing! And I approve of the liberal use of flags here..

https://www.onlinevisa.com/news/worl...%202nd%20place.

I'm just not sure that powerful is the best wording when you are assessing one particular element of a passport - a very important one, but there are other roles a passport serves too, which is why I asked whether it considered those.

Anyway, it is interesting!

Well this is the name and methodology used, so I'm not sure what we can do about it

[Hilts]

Re: Another Brexit Bonus

Well flying out of Bristol Saturday morning.

Interesting to see how it all compares to pre - Brexit.

[JamesWales]

Re: Another Brexit Bonus

Well this is the name and methodology used, so I'm not sure what we can do about it

I agree - I think it's just a rather boosterist term for their study which made me wonder if they factored in other elements. Hey ho

[Swiss Peter]

Re: Another Brexit Bonus

Here we go!

"Freedom of movement" is something of a colloquialism. It didn't mean there were never checks anywhere. Some countries are outside of Schengen, so there was. You always needed your passport to fly abroad etc and it was always checked. Now it is stamped, but it needn't be. Thats a choice (some) EU countries have made I believe. They don't have to. Mines been stamped twice. It took no longer at all. A second at most.

Even if all the queues were caused by Brexit (they weren't) as opposed to anything else, they didn't occur on the second weekend of the first full summer holiday post covid and leaving the EU, which rather suggests that if people put their minds to it, then whatever problems are created can be solved within a week anyway.

It's hardly the most compelling reason to have remained in the EU is it.

No - there are certainly lots of other more compelling reasons to have remained in the EU, and delays at Dover are not near the top of my list of biggest concerns either.

But since we're on the subject, are you really trying to argue that 'movement' post-Brexit is as 'free' now as it was when UK was part of the EU but outside Schengen?. ....and this based upon your own '1 second' experience?. There's a good video from Simon Calder posted further up which suggests otherwise, and I imagine he probably knew we weren't in Schengen in pre-Brexit times.

“Freedom of movement” may be a colloquialism but it can also means real things to real people and real businesses when that movement is restricted and it causes things to go tits-up, which is what even JRM is now suggesting happened at Dover.

[Swiss Peter]

Re: Another Brexit Bonus

Well flying out of Bristol Saturday morning.

Interesting to see how it all compares to pre - Brexit.

Where you flying to?. I've been in and out of Germany a few times. Where as before I got waved through with a cursory glance at my passport, I now get questioned on where I'm going and for what reason (maybe cos I go in and out so much). Not that it has been a major issue for me yet. Have a good trip!

[Hilts]

Re: Another Brexit Bonus

Where you flying to?. I've been in and out of Germany a few times. Where as before I got waved through with a cursory glance at my passport, I now get questioned on where I'm going and for what reason (maybe cos I go in and out so much). Not that it has been a major issue for me yet. Have a good trip!

Cheers mate. Crete.

[JamesWales]

Re: Another Brexit Bonus

No - there are certainly lots of other more compelling reasons to have remained in the EU, and delays at Dover are not near the top of my list of biggest concerns either.

But since we're on the subject, are you really trying to argue that 'movement' post-Brexit is as 'free' now as it was when UK was part of the EU but outside Schengen?. ....and this based upon your own '1 second' experience?. There's a good video from Simon Calder posted further up which suggests otherwise, and I imagine he probably knew we weren't in Schengen in pre-Brexit times.

“Freedom of movement” may be a colloquialism but it can also means real things to real people and real businesses when that movement is restricted and it causes things to go tits-up, which is what even JRM is now suggesting happened at Dover.

No, I'm not. Movement is less free. There are more checks on some goods, passports are generally stamped and people have lost the automatic right to live within the EU. These are facts and I understand why for some people they were reasons to vote Remain six years ago and why they may still be bitter now.

But that doesn't mean that other issues cannot cause delays, or that problems didn't exist before, or that new problems can't be solved, or that new opportunites can't emerge outside the EU, or that all of the issues now are necessarily needed.

Problems come, problems go. This default position of many to kinda fold their arms and say, "well thats Brexit!" it's neither helpful nor in most cases truthful. Much better to try and find solutions.

It's also just one of many many ways of assessing the UK's position since 2016, and I would suggest there are more important ones. The optics for the EU's economies are generally worse than ours at the moment. (not Brexit related, I would add, although the EU's stance on Russia is questionable)

Incidentally, if there were queues like we saw two weeks ago every week, I absolutely would largely blame brexit - I asked Jon1959 if he was willing to bet on the chaos continuing, and he declined. I think it would have been fun (and I was a little worried!)