The Donald Trump thread

[William Treseder]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

A few weeks ago, Leon Musk was in the Oval Office without a suit, answering questions about the government while Trump sat meekly behind his desk, watching Musk's son wipe his bogies on it (the desk has since been replaced).

Why is there a big deal about Zelenskyy not wearing a suit while nothing was made about Musk? Because the purpose is to belittle him.

I’m no dress guru Lardy, but surely you can agree that when the leaders of 2 countries get together for an official, serious meeting, then wearing a suit and tie should be the norm?

[lardy]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

I’m no dress guru Lardy, but surely you can agree that when the leaders of 2 countries get together for an official, serious meeting, then wearing a suit and tie should be the norm?

Normally yes, I'd say so. But I don't think he wore a suit when he spoke with other countries, or to the UN, or to US Congress. I think he's said he'll wear one when the war is over. So if he'd worn a suit to this meeting, I'm sure they'd have found a way to use that against him - particularly as the reporter who asked the question is Marjorie Taylor Greene's boyfriend. He was on a hiding to nothing either way, he wouldn't win whether he wore a suit or not.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

I’ve heard it said in the last twenty four hours that Churchill often wore military gear when meeting other leaders during the Second World War - dunno if it’s true or not, but no one seems to be disputing it. Also, I think what Musk wears in the White House becomes important when it’s tolerated by the very people who it seems have a problem with what Zelensky wears when he’s there - Trump and Vance are hypocrites.

[William Treseder]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

Normally yes, I'd say so. But I don't think he wore a suit when he spoke with other countries, or to the UN, or to US Congress. I think he's said he'll wear one when the war is over. So if he'd worn a suit to this meeting, I'm sure they'd have found a way to use that against him - particularly as the reporter who asked the question is Marjorie Taylor Greene's boyfriend. He was on a hiding to nothing either way, he wouldn't win whether he wore a suit or not.

Fair point 👍

[stevo]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

I never judge anyone by the clothes they wear with no exception. In fact, I admire Zelenskyy for not bowing down to others' expectations.

[Wash DC Blue]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

I'm not saying you're wrong about what how Zelensky handled the meeting, but can you give some indication of why he was wrong because all we're getting over here is the bit where Vance starts calling Zelensky ungrateful and then Trump wades in - I've heard some commentators saying that Zelensky didn't handle the situation well, but have not seen examples of this yet. I've just watched last nights Newsnight and there were some pretty wild sounding accusations made about Zelensky from someone supporting Trump who said Biden started the war when asked the obvious question of who invaded who three years ago, but, again, nothing tangible.

Based on what I've seen so far, Vance's intervention looks pre arranged because I don't see him talking like that if he didn't have Trump's backing, but I'm just guessing there.

I’d have to watch the full video again to give you timestamps.

The thing is, what Zelensky was saying wasn’t necessarily wrong, it’s where, how and when he said them.
His tone became increasingly agitated throughout the conference.

There were two particular flash points to me, which were a possible implied threat to the US if Ukraine didn’t stop Russia and also asking Vance about diplomacy.

Everyone talking about his attire are making a mountain out of a molehill.
It was that ridiculous journalist that asked the question (who incidentally stroked Trumps ego with another question before that).
Trump actually said he liked Zelensky’s attire.
Modi was there a couple of weeks back, not wearing a suit…I can’t imagine such a question being asked of him.

Ultimately Starmer and Macron, played to Trumps ego and left with what they wanted.
Zelensky didn’t have to be sycophantic but he didn’t have to be irreverent either…which I think he was a bit.

As far as a set up/ambush goes….according to Marco Rubio, the deal could have been signed 5 days ago and there was no need for Zelensky to come to DC, but he insisted.
As I said, the first 40 minutes were relatively smooth and had he kept calm and not talked past the sale, things would be different.

[North Cardiff Blue]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

A few weeks ago, Leon Musk was in the Oval Office without a suit, answering questions about the government while Trump sat meekly behind his desk, watching Musk's son wipe his bogies on it (the desk has since been replaced).

Why is there a big deal about Zelenskyy not wearing a suit while nothing was made about Musk? Because the purpose is to belittle him.

He should have put a suit on, he's been acting like an action man president for too long, sure some Europen leades lapped it up, but he dropped a bollock big time turning up looking for help in a scruffy sweatshirt and a bad attitude. Fair play to Starmer he stroked his ego and it worked a treat and had him eating out of his hand. How could he possibly get it so wrong?

To say you're protected by your nice ocean, but you'll get it or words to that effect were so stupid when he needs their help, what a daft mistake to make, that's what blew a massive deal and could have lasting repocusions.

He had better beg, he has a very weak hand.

[goats]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

Love the way that idiot pence was going on about disrespecting the Oval Office when just over 4 years ago Trump was encouraging his fellow buffoons to storm government buildings….massive respect shown for government that day eh?

[goats]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

He should have put a suit on, he's been acting like an action man president for too long, sure some Europen leades lapped it up, but he dropped a bollock big time turning up looking for help in a scruffy sweatshirt and a bad attitude. Fair play to Starmer he stroked his ego and it worked a treat and had him eating out of his hand. How could he possibly get it so wrong?

To say you're protected by your nice ocean, but you'll get it or words to that effect were so stupid when he needs their help, what a daft mistake to make, that's what blew a massive deal and could have lasting repocusions.

He had better beg, he has a very weak hand.

Who gives a shit what he was wearing? I’ve never ever seen him in a suit. Trump and pence are just idiots ffs. If I was Zelenskyy I would have just looked at them when they began to kick off and left, humiliating them properly.

[jon1959]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

He should have put a suit on, he's been acting like an action man president for too long, sure some Europen leades lapped it up, but he dropped a bollock big time turning up looking for help in a scruffy sweatshirt and a bad attitude. Fair play to Starmer he stroked his ego and it worked a treat and had him eating out of his hand. How could he possibly get it so wrong?

To say you're protected by your nice ocean, but you'll get it or words to that effect were so stupid when he needs their help, what a daft mistake to make, that's what blew a massive deal and could have lasting repocusions.

He had better beg, he has a very weak hand.

He wears what he wears as a statement, and everyone knows why - it has been explained enough over 3 years.

The attack on his clothing was pathetic - and just one part of a crass set up from the Trump menagerie.

The reference to the ocean protecting the USA was a reference to something Donald Trump has said!

'He had better beg, he has a very weak hand.' - beautiful Trumpspeak. Well done!

I am no fan of Zelenskyy, but the Oval Office shit show is all on Trump. There may be some rowing back from both sides, but it turned out to be what couldbe a defining moment in the realignment of the post WW2 world: An isolationist US and expansionist Russia in an alliance - and a geopolitical and economic cold war with Europe and China.

Europeans are traumatised and racing to adjust to the new reality but Xi and Putin are laughing their heads off.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

I’d have to watch the full video again to give you timestamps.

The thing is, what Zelensky was saying wasn’t necessarily wrong, it’s where, how and when he said them.
His tone became increasingly agitated throughout the conference.

There were two particular flash points to me, which were a possible implied threat to the US if Ukraine didn’t stop Russia and also asking Vance about diplomacy.

Everyone talking about his attire are making a mountain out of a molehill.
It was that ridiculous journalist that asked the question (who incidentally stroked Trumps ego with another question before that).
Trump actually said he liked Zelensky’s attire.
Modi was there a couple of weeks back, not wearing a suit…I can’t imagine such a question being asked of him.

Ultimately Starmer and Macron, played to Trumps ego and left with what they wanted.
Zelensky didn’t have to be sycophantic but he didn’t have to be irreverent either…which I think he was a bit.

As far as a set up/ambush goes….according to Marco Rubio, the deal could have been signed 5 days ago and there was no need for Zelensky to come to DC, but he insisted.
As I said, the first 40 minutes were relatively smooth and had he kept calm and not talked past the sale, things would be different.

Thanks, your views are pretty balanced and im not going to defend Zelensky much because I’m still not sure if his behaviour was provocative or not, but he was in a position where he was being criticized in a very forceful manner by the President and Vice President backed by some very hostile journalists - it was a situation which plenty of experienced political commentators have said they’d never seen the like of before.

This brings me on to the fact that Trump needs to be treated differently because he’s so unpredictable. It’s strange, the previous President showed obvious signs of slowing down physically and mentally and was, rightly in my view, deemed to be unfit for a second term. However, Biden never behaved in the way Trump does - old men nearer eighty than seventy that shout and rant in important public meetings discussing a war would be thought to be unfit for duty in normal circumstances, but normality disappears out of the window with Trump and people go out of their way to try not to upset him as they bend over backwards to try and accommodate him. Seems to me that the more you try to tolerate and flatter Trump, the more liberties he takes.

[delmbox]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

Who gives a shit what he was wearing? I’ve never ever seen him in a suit. Trump and pence are just idiots ffs. If I was Zelenskyy I would have just looked at them when they began to kick off and left, humiliating them properly.

Not sure Pence can be blamed for too much yesterday

[ToTaL ITK]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

While it may seem trivial to some folk, I thought Zelensky should have adorned a suit. He just turned up looking like a casual.
As for the debate, I thought Trump and Vance’s behaviour was disgraceful.
Just a blatant display of bullying.
As for the war itself, it’s as pointless as all wars are. I’ll keep saying this till I’m blue in the face. The vast majority of Europeans, Russians, Ukranians, Chinese, etc are peace loving folk who just want a quiet life.
The human race has been constantly dragged into battle by leaders and dictators with greedy agendas since time began.
We are all just pawns in a game of chess played out by the most egotistical, narcissistic figures that human life can spew out.

He's in the middle of a war turnip brain. He also doesn't want to stand apart from his people and look like he's just hob nobbing and partying. Sorry he couldn't wear a tuxedo for you.

[Canton Kev]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

Who actually cares what he wore? They were coming together to try and broker a deal between nations worth hundreds of billions of dollars, international relations, the placement of a huge number of military assets and (hopefully) securing peace in the region for years to come. A deal that would have world changing consequences.

What he was wearing should be completely irrelevant to securing that deal.

The jumper and boots look is part of his “look” the same way Trump has his long red ties and MAGA hats. Or Steve Jobs always wearing black turtle necks and Lemmy with his iconic facial hair.