The Donald Trump thread

[Wash DC Blue]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

I think zelensky was very brave to deal with those idiots

He wanted assurances that if putin broke any agreement there would be military support of some kind

Putin has broken deal after deal , cease fire after cease fire

If the press conference was just a sort of meet and greet then trump and his crew should have made sure that was the style

Zelensky is clearly not an experienced ......arse licker ......world politican etc but fair play to him he wasn't fooled by trump and his silver tongue

It's clearly unacceptable for America to say this is how it's going to be then get stroppy when another country won't bow down

Trump is not as great as he thinks he is ....Ukraine was invaded by putin and Ukraine has lost many people defending itself

But trump just sits there and talks about putin as if he's dealing with two schoolkids ?

Putin is a murdering dictator so he should be treating zelensky with respect not patronising him or telling him he should be grateful ?

Ff sake America has always got involved in wars , they are in no position to tell a country invaded by another that they should be grateful or are demanding too much .....incredible

This nonsense could be sorted by a small peacekeeping force led by America but also involving Europe

Easy

Putin is despicable and no matter the justifications of some people started this war and has conducted it in a brutal fashion bombing schools and hospitals.
I went to the Russian embassy the day of the invasion to protest.

I hope that he rots in hell.

I am glad that Europe and the US provided financial and military aid to help Ukraine stand up against the tyranny.

This war though, cannot continue as it is.
It pains me to say that Ukraine is not going to win.
A brokered ceasefire then steps to peace are its best hope of surviving as a nation.

Zelensky handled this conference woefully.
The first 40 minutes were fine even though he was agitated and kept trying to negotiate and dictate terms on security in front of the world’s cameras.
I believe at one point he may have called Vance a “bitch” in Ukrainian.
He may well have thought that, but he was incredibly undiplomatic even before the spat.
The guy is clearly under immense pressure but he messed up in my opinion.

Vance was awful, he shouldn’t have even been there and was incredibly unstatesmanlike.
Then Trump jumped in showing that he is thin skinned and displayed a huge lack of composure.

The Mineral deal is unjust IMO.
A country gets invaded and then has to sign over part of its natural resources for security.
It’s awful, but it’s the world we live in unfortunately.

People who hate Trump are going to lay the blame at his door.
People who love Trump are going to defend him and blame Zelensky and talk about missing money etc…

My take is that all three handled the situation terribly and there is no way back to the table for Zelensky. I do believe that a new leader will be elected after this.
Maybe that is what the administration wanted out of this conference being live on air rather than behind closed doors, maybe not.

Sadly, the only winner out of this is Vladimir Putin.

[Wash DC Blue]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

Trump did nothing to chastise putin

It was almost like he admired him

I think it's trump first , not America

He's a complete arsehole and he didn't like being pulled up

That was his fault , he and his crew were poking a wounded animal instead of allowing a bit of honest talk from zelensky then dealing with it all later around the table

Absolute joke of an administration , he spent more time slagging off Biden than facing the serious question of security for Ukraine and the other European States

If needed now then Europe or what's left of it together with the UK can hopefully get enough together for a defensive force and bollocks to the USA with regard to being the world policeman

I agree with you, Trump spoke too much about Biden and how things would never have happened under his watch.
Totally pointless and unhelpful.

I’m all for The US handing over the baton regarding being the Worlds Policeman.
The country is damned if it does and damned if it doesn’t and most people here have had enough of endless wars while the infrastructure and healthcare etc are in a mess.

Trump is trying to be an isolationist as far as this goes and that’s why I think he was reluctant to give cast iron guarantees in front of the media regarding tangible security guarantees.

Of course the US will get stick for this, but it will get stick whatever course it takes, particularly with such a polarizing leader.

Regarding The UK and the EU stepping up.
I can’t see that happening.
Only a handful of countries met the NATO GDP spending requirement and Trump addressed this during his first term.
You have seen a substantial increase in spending since the invasion, but it won’t be enough.

The UK military has been depleted, The UK and Europes economies are in an awful state.
Where will the money come from to increase spending even further?

In addition, the population is very different to what it was in 1939. The working class has been shit on for decades and I can’t see them queueing to join up and fight in Ukraine.

Maybe China will step in and secure peace in exchange for Ukraine’s mineral wealth.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

Putin is despicable and no matter the justifications of some people started this war and has conducted it in a brutal fashion bombing schools and hospitals.
I went to the Russian embassy the day of the invasion to protest.

I hope that he rots in hell.

I am glad that Europe and the US provided financial and military aid to help Ukraine stand up against the tyranny.

This war though, cannot continue as it is.
It pains me to say that Ukraine is not going to win.
A brokered ceasefire then steps to peace are its best hope of surviving as a nation.

Zelensky handled this conference woefully.
The first 40 minutes were fine even though he was agitated and kept trying to negotiate and dictate terms on security in front of the world’s cameras.
I believe at one point he may have called Vance a “bitch” in Ukrainian.
He may well have thought that, but he was incredibly undiplomatic even before the spat.
The guy is clearly under immense pressure but he messed up in my opinion.

Vance was awful, he shouldn’t have even been there and was incredibly unstatesmanlike.
Then Trump jumped in showing that he is thin skinned and displayed a huge lack of composure.

The Mineral deal is unjust IMO.
A country gets invaded and then has to sign over part of its natural resources for security.
It’s awful, but it’s the world we live in unfortunately.

People who hate Trump are going to lay the blame at his door.
People who love Trump are going to defend him and blame Zelensky and talk about missing money etc…

My take is that all three handled the situation terribly and there is no way back to the table for Zelensky. I do believe that a new leader will be elected after this.
Maybe that is what the administration wanted out of this conference being live on air rather than behind closed doors, maybe not.

Sadly, the only winner out of this is Vladimir Putin.

I'm not saying you're wrong about what how Zelensky handled the meeting, but can you give some indication of why he was wrong because all we're getting over here is the bit where Vance starts calling Zelensky ungrateful and then Trump wades in - I've heard some commentators saying that Zelensky didn't handle the situation well, but have not seen examples of this yet. I've just watched last nights Newsnight and there were some pretty wild sounding accusations made about Zelensky from someone supporting Trump who said Biden started the war when asked the obvious question of who invaded who three years ago, but, again, nothing tangible.

Based on what I've seen so far, Vance's intervention looks pre arranged because I don't see him talking like that if he didn't have Trump's backing, but I'm just guessing there.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

I agree with you, Trump spoke too much about Biden and how things would never have happened under his watch.
Totally pointless and unhelpful.

I’m all for The US handing over the baton regarding being the Worlds Policeman.
The country is damned if it does and damned if it doesn’t and most people here have had enough of endless wars while the infrastructure and healthcare etc are in a mess.

Trump is trying to be an isolationist as far as this goes and that’s why I think he was reluctant to give cast iron guarantees in front of the media regarding tangible security guarantees.

Of course the US will get stick for this, but it will get stick whatever course it takes, particularly with such a polarizing leader.

Regarding The UK and the EU stepping up.
I can’t see that happening.
Only a handful of countries met the NATO GDP spending requirement and Trump addressed this during his first term.
You have seen a substantial increase in spending since the invasion, but it won’t be enough.

The UK military has been depleted, The UK and Europes economies are in an awful state.
Where will the money come from to increase spending even further?

In addition, the population is very different to what it was in 1939. The working class has been shit on for decades and I can’t see them queueing to join up and fight in Ukraine.

Maybe China will step in and secure peace in exchange for Ukraine’s mineral wealth.

I think on reflection your summary is sharper and more focused than mine

It's thoroughly depressing though ��

[chrisp_1927]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

I don’t know how you can say that?
They are unquestionably America first.

I haven’t appreciated Trumps language regarding Zelensky, but I do feel as though it was used to try to placate Putin and getting him to the negotiating table.

Lord knows where we go from here.

Agree with you about them being America first. Trouble is they seem to also be on board with Putin's 'russia first' policy. It almost seems to me like trump is onboard with a 'spheres of influence ' concept. Where he thinks him, Putin and Xi can do whatever they want to the countries around them, as long as they don't mess with each other.

[Eric Cartman]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

Agree with you about them being America first. Trouble is they seem to also be on board with Putin's 'russia first' policy. It almost seems to me like trump is onboard with a 'spheres of influence ' concept. Where he thinks him, Putin and Xi can do whatever they want to the countries around them, as long as they don't mess with each other.

It certainly feels that way. This hasn't felt like America 'stepping back from the world stage' at all, they are carving up other people's countries and threatening to annex others.

I am not sure being openly soft on Putin will play out well for trump, not everyone who voted for trump is a diehard maga who will follow his every word.

The problem for Europe isn't resources, it's time, can't just build capabilities out of thin air. The Russian economy is in the toilet but they are on a war footing and Europe isn't.

Anyway, I'm off skiing, can somebody give me a heads up if Putin's army is approaching the french/Italian border in the next week.

[goats]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

A press clown is firing questions at an elected president before vital negotiations?

Absolutely staggering

Well done to those dumb Americans who voted Trump

It's a car crash in slow motion

A rogue state now….think we in Europe are now alone in dealing with Putin. This might well come back to bite Trump or America in the ass in 5/10 years…..I just can’t get over how he can give Zelenskyy such a hard time on live TV or anytime, like he’s the problem? At the sametime never slating Putin the agressor? Give us your minerals and be grateful……

[goats]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

It certainly feels that way. This hasn't felt like America 'stepping back from the world stage' at all, they are carving up other people's countries and threatening to annex others.

I am not sure being openly soft on Putin will play out well for trump, not everyone who voted for trump is a diehard maga who will follow his every word.

The problem for Europe isn't resources, it's time, can't just build capabilities out of thin air. The Russian economy is in the toilet but they are on a war footing and Europe isn't.

Anyway, I'm off skiing, can somebody give me a heads up if Putin's army is approaching the french/Italian border in the next week.

They might be on a war footing but they have lost an awful lot of good soldiers and generals in the last three years, you can’t just magic new ones. All they really have is missiles and drones

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

A rogue state now….think we in Europe are now alone in dealing with Putin. This might well come back to bite Trump or America in the ass in 5/10 years…..I just can’t get over how he can give Zelenskyy such a hard time on live TV or anytime, like he’s the problem? At the sametime never slating Putin the agressor? Give us your minerals and be grateful……

He's clearly going to team up with Russia and play playground bullies

I can understand trump wanting to play the chief in all of this , he's clearly a narcissistic personality freak

But there was a chance for him to be far more moderate and make the best of a crap situation

He was handing zelensky a deal leading to a room with the door shut

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

3 and a half years of trump to go

Good grief

Unless he gets whacked

[delmbox]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

That felt like a pre planned ambush to justify a decision that's already been made

[the other bob wilson]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

That's one of the most extraordinary political events I think I've witnessed. Clearly an insight into what normally goes on behind closed doors

Just watched the Rest is Politics podcast and Alistair Campbell said the worst thing he’d seen was Putin losing it with Blair behind closed doors, but it was nowhere near as bad as what happened yesterday.

[Monster munch]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

Never seen anything like that from a serving US president. It has all gone out of the window for Trump after that latest debacle. Trump has pissed off the Mexicans, Canadians, Chinese with the tariffs and now the Europeans & NATO really don’t know what to do and surely now can’t rely on the US as the worlds police force.
King Charles has invited him on a state visit to Scotland over the next few months? Protests will be insane up there. Everyone’s had enough of him already 2 months into his presidency and this latest bullying tactic will surely now push the rest of the world into getting their act together and not relying on the US for security and trade, easier said than done - but unfortunately it has to be done as nobody can rely on this mob at the helm.
It’s going to be a crazy couple of years ahead.

[William Treseder]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

While it may seem trivial to some folk, I thought Zelensky should have adorned a suit. He just turned up looking like a casual.
As for the debate, I thought Trump and Vance’s behaviour was disgraceful.
Just a blatant display of bullying.
As for the war itself, it’s as pointless as all wars are. I’ll keep saying this till I’m blue in the face. The vast majority of Europeans, Russians, Ukranians, Chinese, etc are peace loving folk who just want a quiet life.
The human race has been constantly dragged into battle by leaders and dictators with greedy agendas since time began.
We are all just pawns in a game of chess played out by the most egotistical, narcissistic figures that human life can spew out.

[lardy]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

A few weeks ago, Leon Musk was in the Oval Office without a suit, answering questions about the government while Trump sat meekly behind his desk, watching Musk's son wipe his bogies on it (the desk has since been replaced).

Why is there a big deal about Zelenskyy not wearing a suit while nothing was made about Musk? Because the purpose is to belittle him.