The Donald Trump thread

[TWGL1]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

I’d have to watch the full video again to give you timestamps.

The thing is, what Zelensky was saying wasn’t necessarily wrong, it’s where, how and when he said them.
His tone became increasingly agitated throughout the conference.

There were two particular flash points to me, which were a possible implied threat to the US if Ukraine didn’t stop Russia and also asking Vance about diplomacy.

Everyone talking about his attire are making a mountain out of a molehill.
It was that ridiculous journalist that asked the question (who incidentally stroked Trumps ego with another question before that).
Trump actually said he liked Zelensky’s attire.
Modi was there a couple of weeks back, not wearing a suit…I can’t imagine such a question being asked of him.

Ultimately Starmer and Macron, played to Trumps ego and left with what they wanted.
Zelensky didn’t have to be sycophantic but he didn’t have to be irreverent either…which I think he was a bit.

As far as a set up/ambush goes….according to Marco Rubio, the deal could have been signed 5 days ago and there was no need for Zelensky to come to DC, but he insisted.
As I said, the first 40 minutes were relatively smooth and had he kept calm and not talked past the sale, things would be different.

The full version is very different to what is being aired

Timestamps below.

Zelenskyy was emotional.

Interrupted Trump.

Called Putin names.

Raised his eyebrows.

All before Trump checked him.

And he called Vance a bitch.

He wasn’t ready for peace.

2:00 Trump compliments Zelenskyy

4:00 Zelenskyy calls Putin a terrorist

12:00 Trump cracks joke with Zelensky

13:56 Zelenskyy interrupts Trump

17:20 Zelenskyy throws his hands up in seeming frustration

19:00 reporter asks Zelenskyy why he’s not wearing a suit

19:22 Trump commits to sending arms to Ukraine

19:41 Zelensky raises eyebrows and rolls eyes at Trump’s statement

22:55 Trump takes the edge off of the suit question by joking with Zelensky that he likes his outfit

23:49 Zelensky contradicts Trump and keeps painting Putin in a negative light

24:19 Zelensky says Putin will never accept ceasefire and pushes for American security guarantee

25:55 Zelensky says Putin hates Ukrainians

27:00 Zelensky says Putin should pay all reconstruction costs

29:19 Zelensky shakes head as Trump speaks

32:22 Zelensky says Putin wants to annex Poland

32:30 Zelensky says Putin will attack America

33:00 Zelensky interrupts Trump

39:19 This is when Trump went on the offensive by calling out Zelenskyy hatred for Putin and started to escalate

39:14 Vance says Zelensky has been disrespectful, and conversation continues to escalate

42:40 Apparently calls Vance “suka”, meaning bitch, under his breath.

You don't have to like how Trump handled this, but don’t buy into the story that he ambushed Zelensky.

[goats]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

Not sure Pence can be blamed for too much yesterday

Meant Vance not pence….

[jon1959]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

https://cardiffcityforum.com/data/video/179/179269-a4f080ac7b2278b65e05ca70be8448a1.mp4

[jeepster]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

https://cardiffcityforum.com/data/vi...70be8448a1.mp4

If only

[William Treseder]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

He's in the middle of a war turnip brain. He also doesn't want to stand apart from his people and look like he's just hob nobbing and partying. Sorry he couldn't wear a tuxedo for you.

Are you the full shilling? “Turnip brain “?
You are a bellend of the highest order.
You are about as interesting as the bacon slicer in Morrisons 😂

[JamesWales]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

A lot of you guys are wasting your time because you aren't seeing it from America's perspective.

It's not their job to police the world. This is a European war that America is overwhelmingly paying for.

Why should they? They have the same social problems we do. They cant stop drugs from crossing the border that kill a thousand times more Americans than this war does, so why would they support sending endless sums to Ukraine?

Time for RealPolitik. The US ain't subsidizing is anymore. We need to deal with it

[the other bob wilson]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

A lot of you guys are wasting your time because you aren't seeing it from America's perspective.

It's not their job to police the world. This is a European war that America is overwhelmingly paying for.

Why should they? They have the same social problems we do. They cant stop drugs from crossing the border that kill a thousand times more Americans than this war does, so why would they support sending endless sums to Ukraine?

Time for RealPolitik. The US ain't subsidizing is anymore. We need to deal with it

I’ve seen it said in podcasts that what America has actually done is given Ukraine weapons they deemed obsolete and had been marked for destruction. I can’t say for sure that this is true or not, but it seems clear that the figures Trump is claiming America has “given” to Ukraine is a big exaggeration - this piece from the BBC is echoed by other news sources I’ve seen and makes your claim that America is paying “overwhelmingly” for the Ukraine war effort completely wrong..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crew8y7pwd5o

That said, I’d say the American claim for some reimbursement has some merit to it, but your attempts to justify the outrageous words and behaviour of Trump and Vance on Friday makes no recognition that they looked like they had switched their allegiance to support for the country that tried to completely invade Ukraine three years ago. Such a dramatic change of American allegiance taking little over a month after a period of eighty years of American - European cooperation over Russia is bound to have huge consequences at home and in Europe - especially when there is a chance that any US Government following in 2028 would look to restore what has been a more normal relationship with the Europeans.

To try to dismiss what America is doing like you have done and say Europe just has to get on with things themselves is over simplifying a decision which potentially has enormous questions that need to be clarified - especially when American has such an erratic President.

[Doucas]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

A lot of you guys are wasting your time because you aren't seeing it from America's perspective.

It's not their job to police the world. This is a European war that America is overwhelmingly paying for.

Why should they? They have the same social problems we do. They cant stop drugs from crossing the border that kill a thousand times more Americans than this war does, so why would they support sending endless sums to Ukraine?

Time for RealPolitik. The US ain't subsidizing is anymore. We need to deal with it

The US was one of the countries that persuaded Ukraine to give up its nukes in exchange for security assistance should it be attacked.

No deals with the US can be relied on ever again.

[TWGL1]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

I’ve seen it said in podcasts that what America has actually done is given Ukraine weapons they deemed obsolete and had been marked for destruction. I can’t say for sure that this is true or not, but it seems clear that the figures Trump is claiming America has “given” to Ukraine is a big exaggeration - this piece from the BBC is echoed by other news sources I’ve seen and makes your claim that America is paying “overwhelmingly” for the Ukraine war effort completely wrong..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crew8y7pwd5o

That said, I’d say the American claim for some reimbursement has some merit to it, but your attempts to justify the outrageous words and behaviour of Trump and Vance on Friday makes no recognition that they looked like they had switched their allegiance to support for the country that tried to completely invade Ukraine three years ago. Such a dramatic change of American allegiance taking little over a month after a period of eighty years of American - European cooperation over Russia is bound to have huge consequences at home and in Europe - especially when there is a chance that any US Government following in 2028 would look to restore what has been a more normal relationship with the Europeans.

To try to dismiss what America is doing like you have done and say Europe just has to get on with things themselves is over simplifying a decision which potentially has enormous questions that need to be clarified - especially when American has such an erratic President.

I heard a few years ago that a significant number of weapons and equipment was old and outdated I think I mentioned it on here and it was ignored.

With regards to your last paragraph, is Trump less erratic than Biden ?

Is there any access to a Russian perspective in all this or is it banned so we can only see the one sided narrative?

[the other bob wilson]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

I heard a few years ago that a significant number of weapons and equipment was old and outdated I think I mentioned it on here and it was ignored.

With regards to your last paragraph, is Trump less erratic than Biden ?

Is there any access to a Russian perspective in all this or is it banned so we can only see the one sided narrative?

Did you mention the old weapons to show that the degree of support being offered by the American President was not as great as claimed? If you did, then we're saying the same thing, albeit about different Presidents.

I'm not getting into an argument about which one out of the last two Presidents, both of whom showed that they were temperamentally unsuited for the job, is the more erratic - the simple fact is neither of them are/were up to the job.

We have people like you, and one or two others (none of whom are banned to the best of my knowledge) here to try and justify Putin's behaviour.

[Wales-Bales]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

The jumper and boots look is part of his “look” the same way Trump has his long red ties and MAGA hats. Or Steve Jobs always wearing black turtle necks and Lemmy with his iconic facial hair.

You've been watching too much FashionTV

[Wales-Bales]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

What is so controversial about agreeing to a ceasefire before entering into peace talks?

[TWGL1]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

Did you mention the old weapons to show that the degree of support being offered by the American President was not as great as claimed? If you did, then we're saying the same thing, albeit about different Presidents.

I'm not getting into an argument about which one out of the last two Presidents, both of whom showed that they were temperamentally unsuited for the job, is the more erratic - the simple fact is neither of them are/were up to the job.

We have people like you, and one or two others (none of whom are banned to the best of my knowledge) here to try and justify Putin's behaviour.

Just to get this straight , just because I ask for a balanced explanation doesn’t mean I support anybody in this proxy war neither Russia or Ukraine. It would mean I was hypocritical as I wouldn’t want my son called up.

It’s predictable that you and a few others simply cannot see the facts and accept that people are entitled to question the consequences of prolonged conflict.

Are you suggesting anyone with a view that you don’t agree with should be banned, if so you’re a fool and is probably the reason why platforms like this are dying a slow death. Who do you think you are old timer ?

I see the UK has committed to £3bn per year financial aid for 100 years ( about 1/80 the of Zelenskyy wants )

What’s next, No fly zones? Troops in Ukraine? Long range missiles ?

How many troops does the UK have anyway , probably less than two Russian divisions.

As usual most of the posts which you wet the bed over have proven to be very on point

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

Trump is a nutcase surrounded by nutcases

It's important to stress that whilst he won the election LOADS of decent American people didn't vote for the lunatic

Putin is a ruthless dictator

Zelensky is far from perfect either

But ....America could easily vastly reduce its defence bill in Europe but still ensure that putin is told in no uncertain terms that he needs to get back to Moscow and a peace deal means he cannot invade again without consequences

America......here we mean trump .....is totally irrational and it's kidding itself if it thinks it's giving up its world policeman role .....if it feels like it it will jump in when it feels like it as it always has done .....and if it does the MAGA nutcases who are cheering on trump for pulling out of Europe will cheer him on again if he does on you turn

So unless America is prepared to play a smaller part but still a part in the Ukraine and baltic states situation with military and financial help then Britain , France , Denmark etc are going to have to somehow cobble together some kind of basic deterrent peacekeeping deal to buffer putin

Starmer is going to have to walk a very fine line and I am sure he's going to get lots of flak but I can't see what else he can do