Would Labour Risk Reversing The Rwandan Solution

[JamesWales]

Re: Would Labour Risk Reversing The Rwandan Solution

But you say you don't care if it's left or right if it works. We've had an extreme right wing government for 12 years and literally everything is getting worse and every single post you make is defending it.

You site poor examples such as minimum wage going up while completely failing to understand that inflation has increased by far more so this shows that what you've said about following the best ideas as being compelte rubbish.

Extreme right wing government for 12 years? That's a ridiculous statement and you know it. Pretty offensive to those in history that have genuinely suffered under extreme right-wing governments.

You aren't right on the one example given either- Minimum wage has increased at well above the rate of inflation in the last few years (and rightly so)O

[cyril evans awaydays]

Re: Would Labour Risk Reversing The Rwandan Solution

It's interesting though. I was just pondering the successful extremes we have had in government in my lifetime. Probably from the left it was Harold Wilson's governments in the 70s. On the right Thatcher's 2nd administration after she purged the "wets" with Norman "on your bike" Tebbit took some beating.

I can't think of anything else that matches the cynical crowd we have today though, how about you?

[Organ Morgan.]

Re: Would Labour Risk Reversing The Rwandan Solution

They are being sent to Rwanda for an all expenses paid holiday in the sun while sumptuous accommodation is arranged for their return along with a full suite of welfare benefits.

[Organ Morgan.]

Re: Would Labour Risk Reversing The Rwandan Solution

Come on lads, FFS! Don't wonder why the government can't stop illegal immigration, ask why they are facilitating it.

The cute reasoning is May signed up to the UN's Global Compact for Migration. But that doesn't fly because it is non-binding.

The Fifth Columnists inside the UK, those MPs who wear different colour rosettes but play for the same side, have been implementing the Kalergi Plan for decades.

English Channel during 2020 - Nigel Farage witnesses illegal migrants entering British waters - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEW-nd2OsAo

Same location in 2021, nowt's changed - Nigel Farage spots migrant boat crossing English Channel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70yLMRUvX3I

Ask yourself why Nigel Farage has the energy to expose this caper when news crews from ITV, BBC, Channel 4 and 5 along with the aforementioned Fifth Columnists refuse to. It's the same reason why all those very carefully and deliberately omitted telling their constituents and viewers that the manufacturers of the clot shots enjoyed absolute financial indemnity for their 'safe' products... and that's because they didn't and still don't want people to know.

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Would Labour Risk Reversing The Rwandan Solution

Completely agree with your first point. It has to fit our ethos. The current set up (which a disturbing number of people seem okay with in my opinion) isn't. It's unfair, favours the fitter or wealthier, is dangerous and enriches criminal gangs whilst creating unknown levels of migrants whom we then have to check, care for and ingratiate into society at not inconsiderable cost.

Doing the right thing DOES cost money, I dont mind that. Im proud we are one of the worlds biggest foreign aid donors even after the recent cut. But the point is we are NOT doing the right thing at the moment.

I think this is worth trying. No one forces anyone to come here, by definition they are in a safe country at the moment and there are legal means to coming to the country they can (and should) try.

None of us know if this policy will work, but I suspect it is worth trying and I wonder whether it is something other countries will do - we know already Denmark (centre left govt btw) is at least talking about this - does anyone know if their scheme is in operation and working?

Well depends how you define success. This pivots our immigration system to one whereby your method of entry is the key part of your claim, if you arrive illegally then your claim will not be assessed, despite the fact that the majority who arrive illegally and present themselves to the authorities are currently approved for asylum. This would be okay if the official channels weren't deliberately slow (and a cynic might say about to get a whole lot slower). We want to use the asylum process as a tool for virtue signalling British generosity rather than as a way to genuinely help those in need.

The other side of this is a barbarism of the proposed process. Under the agreement we shall present a list of names/details of illegal immigrants to the UK (the document doesn't mention a cut off so this could include people who entered the UK at any point) to Rwanda and they will pick who they will take. The person will then be given a short period of time to successfully appeal before being shipped off to Rwanda. At no point do they get asked if they want to go or whether they want to return to their country of origin. At no point does the person's claim to asylum get assessed.

It isn't clear if this will reduce channel crossings but I think you could be pretty sure it will reduce the likelihood of anybody who is here illegally willingly interacting with an institution of the state (i.e. reporting a crime, attending a hospital for urgent medical care).

I think you need to be very clear about what you are supporting here:

- It ensures that the UK will help less genuine asylum seekers than before.
- It allows for people who arrive (or have previously arrived) illegally to be forcibly deported without their claim to asylum being assessed.
- There is no evidence it will reduce human trafficking.
- It incentivises illegal entrants to not interact with society, increasing the likelihood of them being taken advantage of.

[Doucas]

Re: Would Labour Risk Reversing The Rwandan Solution

Extreme right wing government for 12 years? That's a ridiculous statement and you know it. Pretty offensive to those in history that have genuinely suffered under extreme right-wing governments.
(and rightly so)O

So you're just going to ignore austerity deaths, covid deaths (right wing countries had worse death rate than lefts ones) nevermind the dramatic increase in poverty over the past 12 years then?

[JamesWales]

Re: Would Labour Risk Reversing The Rwandan Solution

So you're just going to ignore austerity deaths, covid deaths (right wing countries had worse death rate than lefts ones) nevermind the dramatic increase in poverty over the past 12 years then?

Sorry? What? Start again. You have just mentioned a few random (but important) cherry picked stats there and not delved into them at all, whilst of course not mentioned a great many random (but important) stats on other topics.

I'm not arguing whether left or right-wing governments handled Covid better, because I don't view things through that binary narrow spectrum. Equally, I'm not arguing whether Catholic or Protestent countries handled it better, or capitalist or communist countries. I strongly suspect that no clear pattern emerged and in terms of Covid restrictions, they don't fit easily into a left/right scale anyway as all, in normal times, were extremely authoritarian.

My point is that you said Britain has had an extreme right-wing government for 12 years, which is clearly absolutely nonsense and clear hyperbole even for this board.

It's fine, we all exaggerate, but no need to double down on it

[Doucas]

Re: Would Labour Risk Reversing The Rwandan Solution

Sorry? What? Start again. You have just mentioned a few random (but important) cherry picked stats there and not delved into them at all, whilst of course not mentioned a great many random (but important) stats on other topics.

I'm not arguing whether left or right-wing governments handled Covid better, because I don't view things through that binary narrow spectrum. Equally, I'm not arguing whether Catholic or Protestent countries handled it better, or capitalist or communist countries. I strongly suspect that no clear pattern emerged and in terms of Covid restrictions, they don't fit easily into a left/right scale anyway as all, in normal times, were extremely authoritarian.

My point is that you said Britain has had an extreme right-wing government for 12 years, which is clearly absolutely nonsense and clear hyperbole even for this board.

It's fine, we all exaggerate, but no need to double down on it

It isn't though is it. The current government are extreme right wing e.g. priviatise everything, send assylum seekers to Rwanda, you're absolutely deluded if you think otherwise. I then provided facts to show people have suffered under this extreme right wing government.

Honestly if you were Russian you'd defend Putin.

[life on mars]

Re: Would Labour Risk Reversing The Rwandan Solution

I've tried reading through some of the replies , apologies if I missed the straight answer to the OP as there are so many moving goalposts, is the question too tough ??

Again would Labour Risk Reversing The Rwanda Solution????

Simple yes or no will do instead of the usual personal attacks .

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Would Labour Risk Reversing The Rwandan Solution

I've tried reading through some of the replies , apologies if I missed the straight answer to the OP as there are so many moving goalposts, is the question too tough ??

Again would Labour Risk Reversing The Rwanda Solution????

Simple yes or no will do instead of the usual personal attacks .

Were the replies too difficult to understand?

Yes although there isn't really anything to reverse yet.

[JamesWales]

Re: Would Labour Risk Reversing The Rwandan Solution

Todays quiz: Who said this, this morning?

“Our dialogue with the Rwandan government includes a mechanism for the transfer of asylum seekers… [the deal will] ensure a more dignified approach than the criminal network of human traffickers that characterises migration across the Mediterranean today.”

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Would Labour Risk Reversing The Rwandan Solution

Todays quiz: Who said this, this morning?

“Our dialogue with the Rwandan government includes a mechanism for the transfer of asylum seekers… [the deal will] ensure a more dignified approach than the criminal network of human traffickers that characterises migration across the Mediterranean today.”

Not sure anybody cares

[Rjk]

Re: Would Labour Risk Reversing The Rwandan Solution

Presumably we are paying Rwanda handsomly for taking these "undesirable" people off our hands.

This whole thing stinks, it is utterly shameful.

We are paying money to an authoritarian regime here, to absolve ourselves of the moral responsibility of looking after the vulnerable and needy.

[cyril evans awaydays]

Re: Would Labour Risk Reversing The Rwandan Solution

Not sure anybody cares

Well I for one am "slightly taken aback" by the amount of energy JamesWales is expending defending the Rwandan policy. He would be far better served focusing his energy on criticising Russia and Vladimir Putin in my opinion.

[Elwood Blues]

Re: Would Labour Risk Reversing The Rwandan Solution

Todays quiz: Who said this, this morning?

“Our dialogue with the Rwandan government includes a mechanism for the transfer of asylum seekers… [the deal will] ensure a more dignified approach than the criminal network of human traffickers that characterises migration across the Mediterranean today.”

I will take a guess at that bastion of right wing politics...........


Denmark!!