Would Labour Risk Reversing The Rwandan Solution

[Elwood Blues]

Re: Would Labour Risk Reversing The Rwandan Solution

But you say you don't care if it's left or right if it works. We've had an extreme right wing government for 12 years and literally everything is getting worse and every single post you make is defending it.

You site poor examples such as minimum wage going up while completely failing to understand that inflation has increased by far more so this shows that what you've said about following the best ideas as being compelte rubbish.

Calling our admittedly right wing leaning government (at least on certain matters) an extreme right wing government is a bit ,well, extreme!

[cyril evans awaydays]

Re: Would Labour Risk Reversing The Rwandan Solution

I will take a guess at that bastion of right wing politics...........


Denmark!!

Ooh, this is a good game.

Which bastion of wishy-washy liberalism and architect of Go Home Vans and Billboards said this......

"From what I have heard and seen so far of this policy, I do not support the removal to Rwanda policy on the grounds of legality, practicality and efficacy.

"If it is the case that families will not be broken up, does she not believe and where is her evidence that this will not simply lead to an increase in the trafficking of women and children?"

[Elwood Blues]

Re: Would Labour Risk Reversing The Rwandan Solution

Ooh, this is a good game.

Which bastion of wishy-washy liberalism and architect of Go Home Vans and Billboards said this......

"From what I have heard and seen so far of this policy, I do not support the removal to Rwanda policy on the grounds of legality, practicality and efficacy.

"If it is the case that families will not be broken up, does she not believe and where is her evidence that this will not simply lead to an increase in the trafficking of women and children?"

It's not a game but it was Theresa May

[cyril evans awaydays]

Re: Would Labour Risk Reversing The Rwandan Solution

It's not a game but it was Theresa May

Sorry when James Wales said it was today's quiz I obviously misunderstood the seriousness of his question.

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Would Labour Risk Reversing The Rwandan Solution

I for one have completely changed my mind and agree with the policy now that I have found out that someone from denmark think it is a goodun and Theresa May thinks it's bad. Oh wait actually I couldn't care less what other people think of it.

A glimpse into how some people formulate their opinions though maybe..?

[JamesWales]

Re: Would Labour Risk Reversing The Rwandan Solution

I will take a guess at that bastion of right wing politics...........


Denmark!!

Spot on.

Quote released today from that notoriously racist Tory, the Danish immigration minister, Mattius Tesfaye, son of an Ethiopian refugee, former vice Chairman of the Socialist Peoples Party and current MP for the centre-left governing Social Democrats.

Perhaps Europe is finally going to start dismantling people smuggling gangs seriously?

https://www.euronews.com/2022/04/20/denmark-in-talks-with-rwanda-over-processing-of-asylum-seekers

https://order-order.com/2022/04/20/denmark-in-talks-to-send-asylum-seekers-to-rwanda/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mattias_Tesfaye

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Would Labour Risk Reversing The Rwandan Solution

Spot on.

Quote released today from that notoriously racist Tory, the Danish immigration minister, Mattius Tesfaye, son of an Ethiopian refugee, former vice Chairman of the Socialist Peoples Party and current MP for the centre-left governing Social Democrats.

Perhaps Europe is finally going to start dismantling people smuggling gangs seriously?

https://www.euronews.com/2022/04/20/denmark-in-talks-with-rwanda-over-processing-of-asylum-seekers

https://order-order.com/2022/04/20/denmark-in-talks-to-send-asylum-seekers-to-rwanda/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mattias_Tesfaye

Did he provide that much needed evidence to suggest why the approach the British government is taking will reduce human trafficking? You seem so certain it will but then you dodge every question about it. Maybe Priti will find it down the back of her sofa.

I am of the opinion that when the government spends hundreds of millions of pounds of taxpayer money it shouldn't be on a whim and should be supported with an assessment of the value it returns. Happy to hear from you why you don't think that is an appropriate approach.

[JamesWales]

Re: Would Labour Risk Reversing The Rwandan Solution

Did he provide that much needed evidence to suggest why the approach the British government is taking will reduce human trafficking? You seem so certain it will but then you dodge every question about it. Maybe Priti will find it down the back of her sofa.

I am of the opinion that when the government spends hundreds of millions of pounds of taxpayer money it shouldn't be on a whim and should be supported with an assessment of the value it returns. Happy to hear from you why you don't think that is an appropriate approach.

It is important to do a cost/benefit analysis but the reality is there are no facts and no evidence about something that hasn't happened yet, and the costs/benefits of the existing system are also impossible to measure.

I think it's worth trying to do this if it reduces the demand to come to the UK illegally. I dont have an issue with that and see no better solutions coming forward apart from a general shrugging of shoulders.

What is frustrating is that people resort to tropes without actually considering it. So anything to try and reduce illegal immigration is just branded 'racist'. TBH, I think people are seeing through that argument now and realising it's bullshit. At the very least at least a Danish-Ethiopian from a centre left party endorsing the same policy should make it's detractors come up with better reasons to oppose it.

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Would Labour Risk Reversing The Rwandan Solution

It is important to do a cost/benefit analysis but the reality is there are no facts and no evidence about something that hasn't happened yet, and the costs/benefits of the existing system are also impossible to measure.

I think it's worth trying to do this if it reduces the demand to come to the UK illegally. I dont have an issue with that and see no better solutions coming forward apart from a general shrugging of shoulders.

What is frustrating is that people resort to tropes without actually considering it. So anything to try and reduce illegal immigration is just branded 'racist'. TBH, I think people are seeing through that argument now and realising it's bullshit. At the very least at least a Danish-Ethiopian from a centre left party endorsing the same policy should make it's detractors come up with better reasons to oppose it.

A serious question for you, do you consider migrants who arrive here illegally to be criminals or victims?

[JamesWales]

Re: Would Labour Risk Reversing The Rwandan Solution

A serious question for you, do you consider migrants who arrive here illegally to be criminals or victims?

It's a good question. Both, but victims more. The main problem is that people have infiltrated this system to exploit it.

But if I just go to America and stay there and don't get my flight home, I wouldn't view myself as a criminal per se..but it doesn't mean I can just do it.

There are tough moral calls to be made here, no one denies that. But the country cannot take anyone who wants to come here and we cant have a system effectively run by people traffickers especially when it is a safe country they are coming from.

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Would Labour Risk Reversing The Rwandan Solution

It's a good question. Both, but victims more. The main problem is that people have infiltrated this system to exploit it.

But if I just go to America and stay there and don't get my flight home, I wouldn't view myself as a criminal per se..but it doesn't mean I can just do it.

There are tough moral calls to be made here, no one denies that. But the country cannot take anyone who wants to come here and we cant have a system effectively run by people traffickers especially when it is a safe country they are coming from.

But by that reckoning you wouldnt take anybody, we are an island with 30+ safe countries one side of us and 2000 miles of sea the other. We processed far less applications than there were illegal crossings last year. Are you seriously suggesting a core principle of this new policy will be to take more refugees 'from source', will we heck.

If they are victims of trafficking and, in the majority of cases, a genuine claimant then why would you punish them twice by not properly judging their case and then flying them to rwanda against their will. This isn't 'going after people traffickers' this is going after victims. Easy option /= best option.

Why are so many people with such strong cases crossing illegally? Often because the legal process is shite and slow.

[jon1959]

Re: Would Labour Risk Reversing The Rwandan Solution

But by that reckoning you wouldnt take anybody, we are an island with 30+ safe countries one side of us and 2000 miles of sea the other. We processed far less applications than there were illegal crossings last year. Are you seriously suggesting a core principle of this new policy will be to take more refugees 'from source', will we heck.

If they are victims of trafficking and, in the majority of cases, a genuine claimant then why would you punish them twice by not properly judging their case and then flying them to rwanda against their will. This isn't 'going after people traffickers' this is going after victims. Easy option /= best option.

Why are so many people with such strong cases crossing illegally? Often because the legal process is shite and slow.

I agree with you completely on this.

However, I'm not sure I share your confidence that Labour would reverse the Rwandan Scheme if it was adopted - and supported by the right wing press. It may be illegal, immoral, impractical and ridiculously expensive, but Starmer & Co have an image to create and maintain. Has Tony Blair pronounced on it yet?

[JamesWales]

Re: Would Labour Risk Reversing The Rwandan Solution

But by that reckoning you wouldnt take anybody, we are an island with 30+ safe countries one side of us and 2000 miles of sea the other. We processed far less applications than there were illegal crossings last year. Are you seriously suggesting a core principle of this new policy will be to take more refugees 'from source', will we heck.

If they are victims of trafficking and, in the majority of cases, a genuine claimant then why would you punish them twice by not properly judging their case and then flying them to rwanda against their will. This isn't 'going after people traffickers' this is going after victims. Easy option /= best option.

Why are so many people with such strong cases crossing illegally? Often because the legal process is shite and slow.

Of course we would still take refugees. Britain, like every western country, has a long history of it. It doesn't normally happen via inflated boats, even greater inflated prices all into the pockets of people smugglers. Thats the point. The UK has recently taken refugees from Afghanistan, Syria and Hong Kong in significant (maybe it should have been greater numbers) I dont believe our official policy was to subcontract it out to global gangs?

[life on mars]

Re: Would Labour Risk Reversing The Rwandan Solution

A serious question for you, do you consider migrants who arrive here illegally to be criminals or victims?

Both in my view, 90 % are male, of the 90%, 70% are single males .

David Blunkett said In 2002 the then Labour Home Secretary David Blunkett was saying that he had “no sympathy” with young asylum seekers from Kosovo or Afghanistan who come to Britain looking for work. He told members of Parliament, “If these people are dynamic and well-qualified, and I don’t dispute that they are, they should get back home and recreate their countries that we freed from tyranny, whether it be Kosovo or now Afghanistan.” In response to this type of rhetoric by 2004 the Refugee Council was saying that ministers were treating asylum seekers like criminals “contributing to public misunderstanding of refugees”.

[Tito Fuente]

Re: Would Labour Risk Reversing The Rwandan Solution

Both in my view, 90 % are male, of the 90%, 70% are single males .

David Blunkett said In 2002 the then Labour Home Secretary David Blunkett was saying that he had “no sympathy” with young asylum seekers from Kosovo or Afghanistan who come to Britain looking for work. He told members of Parliament, “If these people are dynamic and well-qualified, and I don’t dispute that they are, they should get back home and recreate their countries that we freed from tyranny, whether it be Kosovo or now Afghanistan.” In response to this type of rhetoric by 2004 the Refugee Council was saying that ministers were treating asylum seekers like criminals “contributing to public misunderstanding of refugees”.

Why do you have a problem with single males? Are only women and children allowed to suffer atrocities in their countries and find asylum elsewhere?

I wonder if the high percentage (you might want to share your source on that too) of single males that come here is due to them being best equipped to get out of their country, rather than being tied to a bunch of kids.

It's just a thought but on the other hand they're probably all just black rapists in your mind.