This flight to Rwanda

[JamesWales]

Re: This flight to Rwanda

Does the government have legal advisors that stress-test this kind of policy to assess its robustness within the parameters of law against legal scrutiny and challenge? Of course.

What would have been those advisor’s conclusions with respect to this policy? Who knows (…although we’ve seen those reports of their own advisers warnings over the unsuitability of Rwanda as a destination).

Assuming the Government took advice, did it then act upon that advice and adapt its approach to better withstand this challenge? It appears not, based upon the success of those challenges.

So maybe they knew it probably wouldn’t work, and maybe that never actually mattered very much. What mattered was the signal – the meat (lets say gammon, for arguments sake) being thrown out to the hungry pack baying for more stringent immigration controls. A cynical ploy to buy political credit/time, to be seen to be doing something, that they themselves knew probably wouldn’t work.

And they probably knew that their easily-manipulated footsoldiers, who willingly rush to defend this kind of stuff, would end up looking a bit stupid, but were more likely to blame the lawyers or the lefties rather than the ones who instigated a flawed policy in the first place.

No, what matters is to try and prevent the abuse of the asylum system to slow numbers so these things can be managed and processed properly.

Can you not see how broken the system is? Or don't you care? It has to be one or the other really.

[JamesWales]

Re: This flight to Rwanda

And it sounds a bit like their Brexit policy to me. What do we know? this Government has no substance and barely any ethics.

What is ethical about allowing a system designed to help the most needy be exploited by criminal gangs and be used by people who want a better life but are far from the most needy?

There are no ethics in doing nothing.

[Rjk]

Re: This flight to Rwanda

What is ethical about allowing a system designed to help the most needy be exploited by criminal gangs and be used by people who want a better life but are far from the most needy?

There are no ethics in doing nothing.

Do you think that any of these actions do anything to prevent criminal gangs from exploiting the needy?
desperate people fleeing whatever they are fleeing aren't going to know what the latest awful policy our tory government has cooked up, they won't have the faintest idea about flights to Rwanda or Albanian police.
I'm sure the criminal gangs aren't handing out a pamphlet stating how many people die at sea and how many get deported to Rwanda.

All these things do is try to please the people who have been convinced that immigrants are the cause of all of their problems.

[JamesWales]

Re: This flight to Rwanda

Do you think that any of these actions do anything to prevent criminal gangs from exploiting the needy?
desperate people fleeing whatever they are fleeing aren't going to know what the latest awful policy our tory government has cooked up, they won't have the faintest idea about flights to Rwanda or Albanian police.
I'm sure the criminal gangs aren't handing out a pamphlet stating how many people die at sea and how many get deported to Rwanda.

All these things do is try to please the people who have been convinced that immigrants are the cause of all of their problems.

The point is, these aren't desperate people. That is exactly the point. 40-60% are estimated to be from Albania. I'm not saying they don't want a better life, but the reality is not how you see it and that is what is so frustrating.

People are playing a moral card but you are supporting a completely immoral situation. If someone who doesn't need unemployment benefit claims it and you defend it, that isn't you being moral

[Rjk]

Re: This flight to Rwanda

The point is, these aren't desperate people. That is exactly the point. 40-60% are estimated to be from Albania. I'm not saying they don't want a better life, but the reality is not how you see it and that is what is so frustrating.

People are playing a moral card but you are supporting a completely immoral situation. If someone who doesn't need unemployment benefit claims it and you defend it, that isn't you being moral

what percentage of the albanians paying criminal gangs to come here do you think have an in-depth understanding of the latest tory policies on immigration?

[Swiss Peter]

Re: This flight to Rwanda

No, what matters is to try and prevent the abuse of the asylum system to slow numbers so these things can be managed and processed properly.

Can you not see how broken the system is? Or don't you care? It has to be one or the other really.

Sorry, but that really is a pathetic (and quite insulting) response.

Just because someone thinks a particular policy is not only undeliverable but also ridiculous, doesn't mean that they don't acknowledge and care about the problem it is designed to address.

You've spent 20 pages in this thread defending an undeliverable and ridiculous policy. Just own it.

[JamesWales]

Re: This flight to Rwanda

what percentage of the albanians paying criminal gangs to come here do you think have an in-depth understanding of the latest tory policies on immigration?

Well the Irish govt said it had an impact

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/07/23/refugees-pour-ireland-dublin-blames-britains-rwanda-policy/

Seems they know about it, but are being lied to

https://inews.co.uk/news/traffickers-telling-migrants-rwanda-policy-border-force-officer-1810356

[JamesWales]

Re: This flight to Rwanda

Sorry, but that really is a pathetic (and quite insulting) response.

Just because someone thinks a particular policy is not only undeliverable but also ridiculous, doesn't mean that they don't acknowledge and care about the problem it is designed to address.

You've spent 20 pages in this thread defending an undeliverable and ridiculous policy. Just own it.

I don't mean to insult you, I am just trying to establish. If you recognise the system is being abused then we can have a conversation about how to try and solve it - which may or may not include policies such as discussed here.

If you don't think it's being abused then thats a different conversation.

If you don't care, then that's fine too..but again, a different conversation.

The issue with the Rwanda policy is to try and actually create a serious push factor to prevent so many people coming in the first place.

[JamesWales]

Re: This flight to Rwanda

960 on saturday!

https://news.sky.com/video/migrant-crossing-numbers-approach-total-for-all-of-2021-12689892