Labour Turn To Implode Angela Won't Be Happy

[life on mars]

Re: Labour Turn To Implode Angela Won't Be Happy

God I miss the halycon days of Corbyn and Boris, bloody true men of principle, we need Farage to reapear and show true leadership ..

I hear Boris is going for UN Secretary General ..

[Claude Blue]

Re: Labour Turn To Implode Angela Won't Be Happy

We will have to agree to disagree on whether Starmer is showing strong leadership. In my view it is spineless and a betrayal of the party he leads and the people he is there to represent. FWIW last month many more of the public (who REALLY matter) backed the strikes than opposed them, and support was rising. That's from the Daily Mail not The Canary!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10960125/Poll-shows-support-rail-strikes-INCREASED-45-CENT.html

I have spent most of my adult life as a Labour Party member (over 30 years), usually under right wing leaders, but always felt able to fully participate, campaign and canvass, and hold office. But with Starmer - after that catalogue of cynical lies he told to win the leadership election - I just reached a tipping point. I quit last November - although the Labour Party refuses to accept my resignation (despite phone calls, emails and cancelled direct debits) until I register on their How To Resign portal and follow the on-line divorce procedure. Membership is down by about 200,000 under Starmer if you include the lapsed figures.

On Reeves I was referring to the re-nationalisation comments.

Of course he's showing strong leadership. All parties adopt collective responsibility, Tarry went against this and was rightfully sacked as a junior minister. It's worth adding that he attempted to portray himself as the actual shadow minister for transport!

Funny how he hasn't appeared on any previous RMT picket line but chose to do so yesterday as his CLP moved to deselect him - every one of his wards voted against him. No doubt he's looking out for future employment and who can blame him.

FWIW I fully support the RMT in this dispute but understand that Starmer has no power over it's resolution - that's the problem of being in opposition. Correctly he has called on the government to sit down and negotiate with the RMT. That is the correct approach.

Like you I have also been a member of the Labour Party for over 30 years but unlike you I remain so. I want Starmer to be PM after the next GE as it'll be either him or Truss/Sunak. Who knows what'll be in the manifesto or if it'll bear any relation to the 10 pledges of his leadership campaign. Time has moved on and circumstances change and no one should be beholden to policies pledged in 2020. Equally I know that I won't get all I want from the manifesto but am pragmatic enough to accept that and not let "the perfect be the enemy of the good."

WRT membership, it was inevitably going to shrink as the Corbyn cranks and loons left (not you Jon) and a figure of c. 415k is still healthy. Not that we should dwell on membership numbers, it's voters that matter, not members. The Conservatives have comparatively few members but regularly win elections.

[Swiss Peter]

Re: Labour Turn To Implode Angela Won't Be Happy

Of course he's showing strong leadership. All parties adopt collective responsibility, Tarry went against this and was rightfully sacked as a junior minister. It's worth adding that he attempted to portray himself as the actual shadow minister for transport!

Funny how he hasn't appeared on any previous RMT picket line but chose to do so yesterday as his CLP moved to deselect him - every one of his wards voted against him. No doubt he's looking out for future employment and who can blame him.

FWIW I fully support the RMT in this dispute but understand that Starmer has no power over it's resolution - that's the problem of being in opposition. Correctly he has called on the government to sit down and negotiate with the RMT. That is the correct approach.

Like you I have also been a member of the Labour Party for over 30 years but unlike you I remain so. I want Starmer to be PM after the next GE as it'll be either him or Truss/Sunak. Who knows what'll be in the manifesto or if it'll bear any relation to the 10 pledges of his leadership campaign. Time has moved on and circumstances change and no one should be beholden to policies pledged in 2020. Equally I know that I won't get all I want from the manifesto but am pragmatic enough to accept that and not let "the perfect be the enemy of the good."

WRT membership, it was inevitably going to shrink as the Corbyn cranks and loons left (not you Jon) and a figure of c. 415k is still healthy. Not that we should dwell on membership numbers, it's voters that matter, not members. The Conservatives have comparatively few members but regularly win elections.

I've been wavering on Starmer after initially supporting him, but you make some good points. Nightmare scenario is that labour in-fighting weakens the chances of getting shot of the present incumbents.

[JamesWales]

Re: Labour Turn To Implode Angela Won't Be Happy

Difficult for Starmer, but I should imagine he's content with how it's turned out, although he can only push the left so far before a split emerged, but that is highly unlikely at present I think. At the end of the day, the optics were a Labour MP on the picket line (impresses some people) and a Labour leader being strong (impresses other people).

Ultimately, if politicians go against the party line they should expect to get sacked. Tarry knew that.

Whats perhaps more interesting is that he is in a relationship with Angela Rayner I believe? So did they talk about it before etc etc etc

[Rjk]

Re: Labour Turn To Implode Angela Won't Be Happy

Angela says ;

Grant Shapps spent more time on his doomed leadership bid than on resolving the strikes. It’s a serious dereliction of duty.

Labour will always defend the right of working people to organise and withdraw their labour - to stand up for services, public safety, defend jobs & pay.
7:59 AM · Jul 27, 2022

Her ex a public service union official is worth a bit

https://www.newsunzip.com/wiki/mark-rayner/

Do you have a bit of an obsession with Angela Rayner? most of the time someone brings her up on this board it's you.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Labour Turn To Implode Angela Won't Be Happy

Labour taking the left for granted again. I’ve been calling for Starmer to start talking about what he and his party is for rather than against and now he has started doing it to a tiny extent, it’s pretty depressing - he’s petrified of stepping on “middle England’s” toes.

[JamesWales]

Re: Labour Turn To Implode Angela Won't Be Happy

Labour taking the left for granted again. I’ve been calling for Starmer to start talking about what he and his party is for rather than against and now he has started doing it to a tiny extent, it’s pretty depressing - he’s petrified of stepping on “middle England’s” toes.

It's easier for him though, with there being no obvious left of labour party at the moment, Socialist Alliance, Respect, various marxist groups etc all gone by the wayside. He could risk losing their votes, but more likely is he knows he has them in the bag at the moment.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Labour Turn To Implode Angela Won't Be Happy

It's easier for him though, with there being no obvious left of labour party at the moment, Socialist Alliance, Respect, various marxist groups etc all gone by the wayside. He could risk losing their votes, but more likely is he knows he has them in the bag at the moment.

The Green Party should be thinking they’ve got a real opportunity of taking a lot of votes, especially young ones, off Labour.

[JamesWales]

Re: Labour Turn To Implode Angela Won't Be Happy

The Green Party should be thinking they’ve got a real opportunity of taking a lot of votes, especially young ones, off Labour.

Yeah true. I suppose I overlooked them in there, but I don't see them as conventionally left really, but yes, they could siphon off some younger ones.

The old Labour problem of keeping both Hampstead and Hull happy..

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Labour Turn To Implode Angela Won't Be Happy

It's easier for him though, with there being no obvious left of labour party at the moment, Socialist Alliance, Respect, various marxist groups etc all gone by the wayside. He could risk losing their votes, but more likely is he knows he has them in the bag at the moment.

Yeah. I can't imagine being 'left' enough to want to risk another Tory government and Starmer is counting on people feeling that way. He might lose votes to the greens in seats they can't win.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Labour Turn To Implode Angela Won't Be Happy

After four straight election defeats, Labour has got nothing to be complacent about and expecting power to just fall into your lap just because the Government is crap reeks of complacency - truth is, leaving party politics aside, we’ve had a crap Government for twelve years and a pretty awful main opposition party during the same period.

[life on mars]

Re: Labour Turn To Implode Angela Won't Be Happy

After four straight election defeats, Labour has got nothing to be complacent about and expecting power to just fall into your lap just because the Government is crap reeks of complacency - truth is, leaving party politics aside, we’ve had a crap Government for twelve years and a pretty awful main opposition party during the same period.

Truss will turn the tide..

[Dorcus]

Re: Labour Turn To Implode Angela Won't Be Happy

Like King Canute?

[jon1959]

Re: Labour Turn To Implode Angela Won't Be Happy

Like King Canute?

To be fair to Cnut, he did his defying the waves act to make a point to his sycophantic advisors. He was saying to them that he was just a man and has no supernatural power over nature - and proved it by getting his feet wet - whatever oily nonsense they said to curry favour.

[jon1959]

Re: Labour Turn To Implode Angela Won't Be Happy

I am no fan of Lisa Nandy - but good to see her turn up at a CWU picket line in Wigan.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/01/bt-and-openreach-strike-lisa-nandy-visits-picket-line-in-wigan

I assume she will be instructed to apologise, and will be sacked if she doesn't?