Project fear was right all along.

[HyperboreanCCFC]

Re: Project fear was right all along.

Sterling losing nearly 20% of it's value against the euro since brexit is catastrophic, living standards for middle and lower income families falling to lower levels than any other Northern European economy is catastrophic, a government debt trajectory that could unless there are swingeing public sector cuts lead to an imf bailout is catastrophic, the only country forced to restart QE to buy its own debt, business supply chains totally ducked due to to red tape, customs and border delays. The list goes on and on. What happened to substance FDI into Wales? It used to be a thing once you know, unsurprisingly this seems to have all but vanished as we can no longer compete with our neighbours due our inability to provide a frictionless trading environment with Europe.

😆
How much of the 20% loss occured after Lizz Truss plan? Which has nothing to do with Brexit.
Do you have evidence that the middle class now have the lowest standard of living in Northern Europe?
If an IMF bailout occurs it will down to Lizz Truss audacious attempt to stimulate growth with uncosted tax cuts. Nothing to do with Brexit yer numpty 😆

QE resuming was again a response to Lizz Truss economic policy. Supply chains are not "totally ducked" at all. Why are you lying to yourself like this?

What is the FDI into Wales?

[HyperboreanCCFC]

Re: Project fear was right all along.

Liz Truss on 20 September:

"There aren't currently any negotiations taking place with the US and I don't have an expectation that those are going to start in the short to medium term."

That doesn't mean we're "at the back of the queue" we could still be at the front of the queue. Where is your evidence we are at the back of the queue behind countries in Africa...?

[lardy]

Re: Project fear was right all along.

That doesn't mean we're "at the back of the queue" we could still be at the front of the queue. Where is your evidence we are at the back of the queue behind countries in Africa...?

I haven't said we are at the back of the queue. You need to look on the left of your screen to see who has responded to you.

You said "We're in talks with the Americans." The PM says we're not and won't be starting any time soon.

So where is your evidence that "We're in talks with the Americans"?

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Project fear was right all along.

I've quite clearly stated there.. "notwithstanding the chaos of the last few weeks". The mini budget (or at least it's delivery and some of its content) was clearly a grave error, but nothing to do with Brexit. Thats what this thread is about, no?

Again, can anyone name a comparable European country not undergoing more or less the same problems as the UK at the moment?

Well, I thought you’d done your normal taking charge thing and made it into another thread where you lecture us about how we’re no worse off than France, Germany etc. I merely pointed out that the IMF, and the US President it seems, believes that we are a stand out example of woeful financial management and you cannot just dismiss what you call “grave errors” as if they don’t count somehow.like you’re trying to do with your use of the word “notwithstanding”.

It’s not critics on here that the you need to convince that you are still right about Brexit, it’s a writer at that Brexit cheerleader the Dailty telegraph. However, seeing as you ask, wouldn’t you have thought that getting towards six and a half years after the vote, here would be some stand out event, policy or agreement that Brexiteers could point to and say this has brought lasting, unarguable benefit to everyone in the UK? I can’t think of anything which fits that bill.

[Wales-Bales]

Re: Project fear was right all along.

The pound is back to where it was, so obviously nothing to do with project fear, more like project hate.

[JamesWales]

Re: Project fear was right all along.

Well, I thought you’d done your normal taking charge thing and made it into another thread where you lecture us about how we’re no worse off than France, Germany etc. I merely pointed out that the IMF, and the US President it seems, believes that we are a stand out example of woeful financial management and you cannot just dismiss what you call “grave errors” as if they don’t count somehow.like you’re trying to do with your use of the word “notwithstanding”.

It’s not critics on here that the you need to convince that you are still right about Brexit, it’s a writer at that Brexit cheerleader the Dailty telegraph. However, seeing as you ask, wouldn’t you have thought that getting towards six and a half years after the vote, here would be some stand out event, policy or agreement that Brexiteers could point to and say this has brought lasting, unarguable benefit to everyone in the UK? I can’t think of anything which fits that bill.

You often do this - A thread deviates from your desired direction and you claim there's some kind of mischief at play. I don't lecture anyone Bob, I merely respond to your posts and try and back up my arguments with evidence. Maybe read some of your posts from my position, and see how they sound? It's not lecturing, it's how forums are supposed to work, no? I think it's more fun than just coming on and agreeing with everything you say. We are all grown ups. You say xyz is because of Brexit, I'm saying, if so, show me why this is also happening to countries that havent left the EU. It's not a hard question.

In terms of Brexit, as I said, two months after leaving we had a global pandemic followed by a war in Europe. No countries outlook looks better now than it did three years ago. The potential global trade benefits of Brexit were clearly curtailed by the global economy almost shutting down, and any benefits in terms of wage growth (which is up) is taken out by inflation impacting us all.

The big story since we left of course was the pandemic. Ursula Von Der Leyen herself, did say the UK is like a speedboat compared to the EU tanker, when it came to vaccines. So you can start your list with that?

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/feb/05/ursula-von-der-leyen-uk-covid-vaccine-speedboat-eu-tanker

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Project fear was right all along.

You often do this - A thread deviates from your desired direction and you claim there's some kind of mischief at play. I don't lecture anyone Bob, I merely respond to your posts and try and back up my arguments with evidence. Maybe read some of your posts from my position, and see how they sound? It's not lecturing, it's how forums are supposed to work, no? I think it's more fun than just coming on and agreeing with everything you say. We are all grown ups. You say xyz is because of Brexit, I'm saying, if so, show me why this is also happening to countries that havent left the EU. It's not a hard question.

In terms of Brexit, as I said, two months after leaving we had a global pandemic followed by a war in Europe. No countries outlook looks better now than it did three years ago. The potential global trade benefits of Brexit were clearly curtailed by the global economy almost shutting down, and any benefits in terms of wage growth (which is up) is taken out by inflation impacting us all.

The big story since we left of course was the pandemic. Ursula Von Der Leyen herself, did say the UK is like a speedboat compared to the EU tanker, when it came to vaccines. So you can start your list with that?
https://www.theguardian.com/society/...boat-eu-tanker

I think after your exile from here the last few days ......gosh knows why .....your input is no longer relevant .

You have clearly been preparing your speech but it's the words of a beaten man supporting a hopeless government .

You have been nailed .

The verbosity King is dead .

Onwards !

[JamesWales]

Re: Project fear was right all along.

I think after your exile from here the last few days ......gosh knows why .....your input is no longer relevant .

You have clearly been preparing your speech but it's the words of a beaten man supporting a hopeless government .

You have been nailed .

The verbosity King is dead .

Onwards !

Verbosity, moi!?

Talking of writing too much, only one word is needed to answer my question..just one word. Any comparable European country. There's several to choose from. If they are all experiencing severe economic issues at the moment and they have not left the EU, that would rather suggest that the cause of the issue is not as this thread implies.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Project fear was right all along.

Verbosity, moi!?

Talking of writing too much, only one word is needed to answer my question..just one word. Any comparable European country. There's several to choose from. If they are all experiencing severe economic issues at the moment and they have not left the EU, that would rather suggest that the cause of the issue is not as this thread implies.

I have no idea what the question was Jim

I was just waiting for you to come in from the
shed of broken dreams

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Project fear was right all along.

I’ll always give the UK Government credit for their vaccine roll out, but, surely, you should look at the pandemic as a whole and the UK was weak on things like track and trace, PPEs and cronyism. France and Germany have both had in the region of 10 million more cases than us, but our total deaths and deaths per million figures are higher than them.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

Therefore, if you are wanting to take the pandemic as a whole, it seems to me that the EU countries you seem eager to compare us with outperformed Brexit Britain.

[Doucas]

Re: Project fear was right all along.

'UK GDP is 5.2 per cent smaller than the modelled,*doppelgänger*UK; investment is 13.7 per cent lower; and goods trade, 13.6 per cent lower'

https://www.cer.org.uk/publications/archive/policy-brief/2022/cost-brexit-so-far

This is absolutely damning and the usual suspects have their head in the sand.

Speak to any business owner who exports or imports from the EU and ask if brexit has improved things for them. My family has a business that imports food from abroad and its been an absolute nightmare.

There is no point even talking to brexiters or tories now. Their mental takes need to just be ignored while the adults in the room fix their mistakes.

[Citizen's Nephew]

Re: Project fear was right all along.

'UK GDP is 5.2 per cent smaller than the modelled,*doppelgänger*UK; investment is 13.7 per cent lower; and goods trade, 13.6 per cent lower'

https://www.cer.org.uk/publications/archive/policy-brief/2022/cost-brexit-so-far

This is absolutely damning and the usual suspects have their head in the sand.

Speak to any business owner who exports or imports from the EU and ask if brexit has improved things for them. My family has a business that imports food from abroad and its been an absolute nightmare.

There is no point even talking to brexiters or tories now. Their mental takes need to just be ignored while the adults in the room fix their mistakes.

100% it doesn’t matter how many real world examples you give it’s just constant denial or whataboutery.

[HyperboreanCCFC]

Re: Project fear was right all along.

I haven't said we are at the back of the queue. You need to look on the left of your screen to see who has responded to you.

You said "We're in talks with the Americans." The PM says we're not and won't be starting any time soon.

So where is your evidence that "We're in talks with the Americans"?

The topic and point i responded to was the lies told by remain. I think you need to look at the threads you're responding to. we have been in talks with America and we're not at the back of the queue. Any suggestion of this is palpable nonesense from remainers who can't accept the result of a democratic vote. When Obama said we'd be at the back of the queue, it was a feeble attempt to scare gullible voters and interfere with the democratic process by the president of a foriegn country. We are not at the back of the queue and never were at the back of the queue. America is one of our closest allies ffs 😆 that's me out of our conversation, as i find the whole thing too stupid for words

[superfeathers]

Re: Project fear was right all along.

The topic and point i responded to was the lies told by remain. I think you need to look at the threads you're responding to. we have been in talks with America and we're not at the back of the queue. Any suggestion of this is palpable nonesense from remainers who can't accept the result of a democratic vote. When Obama said we'd be at the back of the queue, it was a feeble attempt to scare gullible voters and interfere with the democratic process by the president of a foriegn country. We are not at the back of the queue and never were at the back of the queue. America is one of our closest allies ffs 😆 that's me out of our conversation, as i find the whole thing too stupid for words

Just to settle this one, there isn't a queue, the U.S. aren't interested in a deal, and the UK would have to drop standards that would mean we'd lose trade with Europe.

So you're both right, we're neither at the back nor at the front because there is no prospect of getting a deal and the UK isn't seeking it.

[HyperboreanCCFC]

Re: Project fear was right all along.

Just to settle this one, there isn't a queue, the U.S. aren't interested in a deal, and the UK would have to drop standards that would mean we'd lose trade with Europe.

So you're both right, we're neither at the back nor at the front because there is no prospect of getting a deal and the UK isn't seeking it.

If there isn't a queue, Obama(leader of the most powerful country in the world) was lying to British voters during an election campaign. Remainers not bothered so much by that for some bizarre reason
The Americans would love a deal with one of it's closest allies and 5th biggest economy in the world.