When Will The Left ?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: When Will The Left ?

No, my position on the Rwanda plan is that people offered no alternative and that was broadly rooted (I argued) that people didn't seem to have a big issue with what was going on.

Read this:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63488070

Anyone saying several months ago what is now being reported as fact would have been chastised by many on the left. Albanian gangs? People smugglers? Emptied Albanian towns etc? The default argument against that was that these are desperate people and this is heartless etc.

It's good you say people should be sent back if they fail asylum claims, but this still costs us a lot of money, it takes years and often because of the same lawyers who are desperate to prevent serious foreign criminals being deported.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59243086

Anyway, finally it seems people appreciate whats going on. Shame that wasn't acknowledged months ago

The gangs of Albanian men who you said were coming over to sell drugs turned out to be mostly Albanian women trafficked for cheap labour

[North Cardiff Blue]

Re: When Will The Left ?

The gangs of Albanian men who you said were coming over to sell drugs turned out to be mostly Albanian women trafficked for cheap labour

It's one to two percent of Albania's men.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-63473022

https://www.ft.com/content/4049021c-3057-45a2-8ba2-80afccfbed0e

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/small-migrant-boats-bring-10-000-albanian-men-to-uk-6w7crsphx

[Eric Cartman]

Re: When Will The Left ?

No, my position on the Rwanda plan is that people offered no alternative and that was broadly rooted (I argued) that people didn't seem to have a big issue with what was going on.

Read this:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63488070

Anyone saying several months ago what is now being reported as fact would have been chastised by many on the left. Albanian gangs? People smugglers? Emptied Albanian towns etc? The default argument against that was that these are desperate people and this is heartless etc.

It's good you say people should be sent back if they fail asylum claims, but this still costs us a lot of money, it takes years and often because of the same lawyers who are desperate to prevent serious foreign criminals being deported.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59243086

Anyway, finally it seems people appreciate whats going on. Shame that wasn't acknowledged months ago

I've had the same position throughout, the asylum process should be followed and method of entry shouldn't matter. It's the only moral/practical position possible.

If you valued our robust legal system you wouldn't post shit like this about 'lefty lawyers' constantly. The process is slow because the process is slow. Do you just want due process suspended for foreign born people?

[Eric Cartman]

Re: When Will The Left ?

Why should I need a solution to the problem to be able to criticise a bad proposal?

If I took my car to a garage and the bloke fixed it up wrong, I can tell. With my non existent knowledge of cars however, I can’t tell him how to fix it.

You’re a hypocrite. On the thread about Braverman’s dream and obsession sending migrants to Rwanda, you came out all guns blazing saying anyone against it supported the current situation and were happy about it. Now when people criticise Rashford they’re doing so in a nuanced way?

He's been exposed for his double standards in this thread, it's embarrassing he hasn't just owned up and moved on.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: When Will The Left ?

It's one to two percent of Albania's men.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-63473022

https://www.ft.com/content/4049021c-3057-45a2-8ba2-80afccfbed0e

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/s...o-uk-6w7crsphx

Not according to the link I posted earlier today.

[North Cardiff Blue]

Re: When Will The Left ?

Not according to the link I posted earlier today.

I think that’s wrong watch the BBC news tonight they just said 2 years ago we had 50 Albanians crossing the channel in small boats, this year already 12,000 of which 10,000 are single men that equates to one to two percent of all the men in Albania, there are now abandoned villages they are coming here.

Three groups of people on those boats, economic migrants because they earn 10 times less than in the UK, the criminals and the traffickers, and there are some victims of modern slavery (small percentage though) but still obviously terrible.

[JamesWales]

Re: When Will The Left ?

He's dead

I understand what you were all going on about now

[JamesWales]

Re: When Will The Left ?

The gangs of Albanian men who you said were coming over to sell drugs turned out to be mostly Albanian women trafficked for cheap labour

No they aren't. The overwhelming majority are men.

Of those determined in the year to June 2022 (a much smaller number) the majority were women.

Thats probably most of the genuine cases right there.

[JamesWales]

Re: When Will The Left ?

I've had the same position throughout, the asylum process should be followed and method of entry shouldn't matter. It's the only moral/practical position possible.

If you valued our robust legal system you wouldn't post shit like this about 'lefty lawyers' constantly. The process is slow because the process is slow. Do you just want due process suspended for foreign born people?

I don't use the term 'lefty lawyers' constantly.

But there are plenty of law firms looking to unpick any issue related to immigration, whether it's trying to prevent Jamaican criminals being deported to encouraging anyone to claim asylum in the UK.

And I do think that's irresponsible and not making the country a better place

This is the guy behing Cranbrook Legal who helped keep a murderer in the UK. Brilliant, thanks for that mate.
His twitter is an A-Z of left-wing causes. No doubt he does very well out of it all.

https://twitter.com/AmerZaman13

[Swiss Peter]

Re: When Will The Left ?

I've had the same position throughout, the asylum process should be followed and method of entry shouldn't matter. It's the only moral/practical position possible.

If you valued our robust legal system you wouldn't post shit like this about 'lefty lawyers' constantly. The process is slow because the process is slow. Do you just want due process suspended for foreign born people?

So have most of us. I try not to get personal on here, but I think the poster you are responding to thinks the rest of us are somehow ill-informed and/or stupid. The latest is that we have only just become aware that this country has an immigration problem. He also likes to lecture us on what's happening in Europe/the wider world (presumably from behind his keyboard in Cardiff while some of us are living/working 'out there' on a daily basis).

To be fair, most I would just ignore. At least he is irritating enough to provoke a response!

[JamesWales]

Re: When Will The Left ?

So have most of us. I try not to get personal on here, but I think the poster you are responding to thinks the rest of us are somehow ill-informed and/or stupid. The latest is that we have only just become aware that this country has an immigration problem. He also likes to lecture us on what's happening in Europe/the wider world (presumably from behind his keyboard in Cardiff while some of us are living/working 'out there' on a daily basis).

To be fair, most I would just ignore. At least he is irritating enough to provoke a response!

Thats nice of you Peter.

Not everyone agrees with you or Eric you know. It's important to have different opinions.

I do think there is a collective naivity on the left about what has happened in the English channel this summer, yes.

And when have I ever referenced a piece of economic data that is inaccurate about Europe? I'm not sure you have ever in fact disagreed with me on that - indeed, you wouldn't be disagreeing with me, you would be disagreeing with eurostat in most cases.

[Swiss Peter]

Re: When Will The Left ?

Thats nice of you Peter.

Not everyone agrees with you or Eric you know. It's important to have different opinions.

I do think there is a collective naivity on the left about what has happened in the English channel this summer, yes.

And when have I ever referenced a piece of economic data that is inaccurate about Europe? I'm not sure you have ever in fact disagreed with me on that - indeed, you wouldn't be disagreeing with me, you would be disagreeing with eurostat in most cases.

Oh, I know - and that's absolutely fine. The point I am making is that you seem to assume that if someone doesn't agree with you, that they are ill-informed. It's patronising, undermines your credibility, and suggests you are the one closed to alternative views.

I spent a career working with eurostat and other data sources. As discussed before, I think that you use them very selectively to suit your own argument.

Still, I enjoy reading your posts, and some (re-brand, Yma o Hyd) I'm in full agreement with. It's just a shame you use such a condescending line of debate.

[JamesWales]

Re: When Will The Left ?

Oh, I know - and that's absolutely fine. The point I am making is that you seem to assume that if someone doesn't agree with you, that they are ill-informed. It's patronising, undermines your credibility, and suggests you are the one closed to alternative views.

I spent a career working with eurostat and other data sources. As discussed before, I think that you use them very selectively to suit your own argument.

Still, I enjoy reading your posts, and some (re-brand, Yma o Hyd) I'm in full agreement with. It's just a shame you use such a condescending line of debate.

I would probably accuse many on here of using the exact same (and worse - personal abuse) at me and others tbh. I can certainly think of one or two who fall foul of that.

I am sure in practice and in person we are all far more reasonable.

I would suggest that others cherry pick and I will usually try to diversify that data out to try to make my point. Will gladly debate the economic statistics that point to our continental peers not experiencing essentially the same problems as us. If they exist, feel free to present them!

For the record, I don't think anyone on here is ill-informed (anymore than all of us are) but I do think there are some who's loyalty to a particularly party will override anything else and I think when you make a very specific point of diversifying where you get your data and opinions it very rarely leads to some of the strong anti-government opinions on here tbh.

[Hilts]

Re: When Will The Left ?

I could name one whose loyalty to a particular party will override anything else.😀

[JamesWales]

Re: When Will The Left ?

I could name one whose loyalty to a particular party will override anything else.��

Well, not me. The most recent comment I made on all that is that if there was an election tomorrow I would vote Labour. I've voted for the red lot more than the blue and voted for one of each in the last Cardiff council elections.

What is frustrating is when for some people, EVERYTHING is the fault of the government. It just isn't so.

Just like not EVERYTHING in Cardiff is the fault of Cardiff Council. Not EVERYTHING in Wales is the fault of the Welsh Govt etc etc etc.

It's no different to people who think the glory days are guaranteed if we just sack the manager.