Richard Osman comment about the far right

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: Richard Osman comment about the far right

Well, of course there is no clear, universal definition of what the country wants. But it would be reasonable to assume that general election results give us a fair indication, no?

If half population were to vote left wing and the other half were to vote right wing it doesn't mean that the electorate 'wants' a finely balanced centre government.

[JamesWales]

Re: Richard Osman comment about the far right

If half population were to vote left wing and the other half were to vote right wing it doesn't mean that the electorate 'wants' a finely balanced centre government.

Doesn't it? It probably means the median point of opinion is fairly centrist.

[Citizen's Nephew]

Re: Richard Osman comment about the far right

Doesn't it? It probably means the median point of opinion is fairly centrist.

No it doesn't James. You're thinking like an accountant. It literally means the polar opposite (no pun intended).

[az city]

Re: Richard Osman comment about the far right

Well, of course there is no clear, universal definition of what the country wants. But it would be reasonable to assume that general election results give us a fair indication, no?

Has a party ever won with more than 50% of the electorate voting for it? I'd guess the answer is "no" so I'm going for UK elections as NOT being representative.

Tyranny of the largest minority etc...

[Wales-Bales]

Re: Richard Osman comment about the far right

If half population were to vote left wing and the other half were to vote right wing it doesn't mean that the electorate 'wants' a finely balanced centre government.

A moot point, since governments answer to the global corporations.

[az city]

Re: Richard Osman comment about the far right

I don't know what a 'far right' fiscal policy would be, because the term normally applies to social policies not fiscal ones. Their budget was a mistake but it wasn't a 'far right' one.

Do you see the obvious problem with this argument?

[JamesWales]

Re: Richard Osman comment about the far right

No it doesn't James. You're thinking like an accountant. It literally means the polar opposite (no pun intended).

You tell me then - Insofar as the UK has any collective opinion, what is it?

I'd say it's reasonable to say that the UK typically elects centre-left or centre-right governments and the battle is won in the centre.

And that is what happens in most advanced western countries.

[JamesWales]

Re: Richard Osman comment about the far right

Do you see the obvious problem with this argument?

AZ you know very well that the term 'far-right' is not applied in general discussions on the economy or in fiscal terms. 'Far right' parties refers almost exclusively to their social policies. France's National Rally, Italy's Brothers of Italy or any other party labelled far-right will not be on the extreme liberal wing of economic theory - more likely the opposite.

If you looked at a party like the BNP, their economic policies are all about market intervention, giving workers stakes in the businesses, rhetoric against bankers etc. That stuff would typically be considered left-wing.

The left-right scale just doesn't really fit comfortably on the economic spectrum.

[Citizen's Nephew]

Re: Richard Osman comment about the far right

You tell me then - Insofar as the UK has any collective opinion, what is it?

I'd say it's reasonable to say that the UK typically elects centre-left or centre-right governments and the battle is won in the centre.

And that is what happens in most advanced western countries.

You do realise that by taking this position regarding centre ground that we should never have allowed Brexit. Half the population wanted to stay. Half wanted to leave. If half vote right and half vote left, you have political/ideological polarity i.e. there is no centrism. It simply doesn't exist in that form (in fact, it cannot). The state of having two opposite or contradictory tendencies, opinions, or aspects is the definition.

What you're alluding to and what we should be aiming for is consensus and respect of the two factions through mediation. Something our political systems and governments will not and never do and are not even set up to do. It requires great leadership and non-confrontational political debate. Ironically, something you advocate for on here.

Edit: that last part sounds like a dig, it isn't but we should all try and practice what we preach.

Edit, edit: in fact, it will be the ultimate downfall of humankind if we cannot grasp this and change our ways.

[JamesWales]

Re: Richard Osman comment about the far right

You do realise that by taking this position regarding centre ground that we should never have allowed Brexit. Half the population wanted to stay. Half wanted to leave. If half vote right and half vote left, you have political/ideological polarity i.e. there is no centrism. It simply doesn't exist in that form (in fact, it cannot). The state of having two opposite or contradictory tendencies, opinions, or aspects is the definition.

What you're alluding to and what we should be aiming for is consensus and respect of the two factions through mediation. Something our political systems and governments will not and never do and are not even set up to do. It requires great leadership and non-confrontational political debate. Ironically, something you advocate for on here.

Edit: that last part sounds like a dig, it isn't but we should all try and practice what we preach.

Edit, edit: in fact, it will be the ultimate downfall of humankind if we cannot grasp this and change our ways.

I think you are overthinking this.

I don't really have strong opinions on it - I just think that most elections are won by who occupies the centre ground because most advanced western countries are generally stable (ish!) and desire progress with stability - ie, some balance, ie, broadly centrist positions.

Referendums are, and should, be used sparingly, but thats not related to the general position of the British public I don't think.

I thought that was a fairly common opinion tbh!

[Citizen's Nephew]

Re: Richard Osman comment about the far right

I think you are overthinking this.

I don't really have strong opinions on it - I just think that most elections are won by who occupies the centre ground because most advanced western countries are generally stable (ish!) and desire progress with stability - ie, some balance, ie, broadly centrist positions.

Referendums are, and should, be used sparingly, but thats not related to the general position of the British public I don't think.

I thought that was a fairly common opinion tbh!

It used to be fairly common opinion that the earth was flat.

[JamesWales]

Re: Richard Osman comment about the far right

It used to be fairly common opinion that the earth was flat.

Nothing ever fits perfectly, but are British elections not usually won from the centre then?

[Citizen's Nephew]

Re: Richard Osman comment about the far right

Nothing ever fits perfectly, but are British elections not usually won from the centre then?

The whole system is broken and a lie and has to re-booted. I’ve taken part in party politics and elections and was conditioned for decades. Not any more. We need the best people to run government, the country and support and protect its citizens.

[JamesWales]

Re: Richard Osman comment about the far right

The whole system is broken and a lie and has to re-booted. I’ve taken part in party politics and elections and was conditioned for decades. Not any more. We need the best people to run government, the country and support and protect its citizens.

Yeah I have some sympathy for that argument, but again, I'd say it's different to a general opinion that broadly speaking British (and most other) voters want something broadly centrist.

More specifically I'd say most want to flip between centre-left and centre-right govts every 10 years or so

[Dave Blue]

Re: Richard Osman comment about the far right

AZ you know very well that the term 'far-right' is not applied in general discussions on the economy or in fiscal terms. 'Far right' parties refers almost exclusively to their social policies. France's National Rally, Italy's Brothers of Italy or any other party labelled far-right will not be on the extreme liberal wing of economic theory - more likely the opposite.

If you looked at a party like the BNP, their economic policies are all about market intervention, giving workers stakes in the businesses, rhetoric against bankers etc. That stuff would typically be considered left-wing.

The left-right scale just doesn't really fit comfortably on the economic spectrum.

That’s the thing with far right rhetoric, they never gain power (until Truss in a coup) and mix their toxic messages with ‘lefty’ economic phrases that entice the working class into their web, just like Brexit.