Labour and anti Semitism.

[the other bob wilson]

Surprised LOM hasn’t posted anything on this to give a bit of “balance” to his previous posts on the subject.

https://news.sky.com/story/labour-no-longer-being-monitored-by-equalities-watchdog-after-antisemitism-reforms-12810866

[jon1959]

Re: Labour and anti Semitism.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/feb/15/sunak-labour-keir-starmer-labour-party

[JamesWales]

Re: Labour and anti Semitism.

Big story too is not letting Jeremy Corbyn stand. I am no fan of Corbyn at all and his brand of politics totally put me off Labour in recent years but this does seem a slightly unnecessary source of conflict.

Starner needs to get control over the left of the party but he also probably needs to keep them on board instead of turning them into opponents or potentially another party, although I don't think a fringe left wing party in British politics would be a bad thing really.

Nonetheless Starner does seem increasingly authoritative and credible.

[life on mars]

Re: Labour and anti Semitism.

Surprised LOM hasn’t posted anything on this to give a bit of “balance” to his previous posts on the subject.

https://news.sky.com/story/labour-no...forms-12810866

I am not in denial .

https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/202203-Disciplinary-Report.pdf

[life on mars]

Re: Labour and anti Semitism.

Big story too is not letting Jeremy Corbyn stand. I am no fan of Corbyn at all and his brand of politics totally put me off Labour in recent years but this does seem a slightly unnecessary source of conflict.

Starner needs to get control over the left of the party but he also probably needs to keep them on board instead of turning them into opponents or potentially another party, although I don't think a fringe left wing party in British politics would be a bad thing really.

Nonetheless Starmer does seem increasingly authoritative and credible.

He is Blair is problem will follow now and may disrupt his advance as he served under Corbyn and like the Tories you cant tell me he didn't know went went on internally and he desperate tried to overturn a democratic Brexit vote , his tune has now changed , as the winning post nears but there are some big fences to get over ..

[JamesWales]

Re: Labour and anti Semitism.

He is Blair is problem will follow now and may disrupt his advance as he served under Corbyn and like the Tories you cant tell me he didn't know went went on internally and he desperate tried to overturn a democratic Brexit vote , his tune has now changed , as the winning post nears but there are some big fences to get over ..

Yes a few things fundementally put me off Labour in recent years

1 - The fear of the economy under Corbyn.
2 - The lack of acceptance of a democratic vote / desire to overturn it
3 - The general nastiness (including antisemitism) and obnoxious behaviour online, most of which came from the Momentum wing.

Of those I would say there has been significant improvement on all three fronts. Of course Starner knew and tolerated some of what went on, but he calls it out now and that's what is more important. Also he has specifically said they will not seek rejoining the EU which again puts that issue to bed for me. It's pointless bearing grudges.

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Labour and anti Semitism.

Big story too is not letting Jeremy Corbyn stand. I am no fan of Corbyn at all and his brand of politics totally put me off Labour in recent years but this does seem a slightly unnecessary source of conflict.

Starner needs to get control over the left of the party but he also probably needs to keep them on board instead of turning them into opponents or potentially another party, although I don't think a fringe left wing party in British politics would be a bad thing really.

Nonetheless Starner does seem increasingly authoritative and credible.

It's all about the presentation.

There is absolutely no way Corbyn deserves to be kicked into touch in the way that he has been but politics is brutal and he is one of the few bogeymen that could accidentally derail labours attempt to form the next government.

[JamesWales]

Re: Labour and anti Semitism.

It's all about the presentation.

There is absolutely no way Corbyn deserves to be kicked into touch in the way that he has been but politics is brutal and he is one of the few bogeymen that could accidentally derail labours attempt to form the next government.

Yep. Optics.

I think if I were Starmer I'd try and keep him at arms length but broadly on side. The difficulty is that a formal decision is needed on re-admitting him to the party and that decision will be expanded as either being for everything Corbyn ever said and done or against everything he has ever said and done, such is the binary nature of contemporary political debate.

It's a risk though, the likes of Owen Jones are pretty influential and he spends a lot of time criticising Keir Starner nowadays

[life on mars]

Re: Labour and anti Semitism.

This is not going to end well rember this Groundhog day

Speaking afterwards, Blair said: ‘Let no one say radical politics is dead. Today a new Labour Party is being born.’ For those on the left wing of the party the vote only confirmed how willing Labour was to jettison its socialist past to get elected.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/from-the-archive-blog/2015/apr/29/clause-four-labour-party-tony-blair-20-1995

And they came for him big time

[jon1959]

Re: Labour and anti Semitism.

Yep. Optics.

I think if I were Starmer I'd try and keep him at arms length but broadly on side. The difficulty is that a formal decision is needed on re-admitting him to the party and that decision will be expanded as either being for everything Corbyn ever said and done or against everything he has ever said and done, such is the binary nature of contemporary political debate.

It's a risk though, the likes of Owen Jones are pretty influential and he spends a lot of time criticising Keir Starner nowadays

A formal decision was made to re-admit Jeremy Corbyn to the Labour Party in November 2020 - by the NEC Disciplinary Panel - after a 19 day suspension. It wasn't difficult.

But Starmer refused to reinstate the whip - which is apparently something he can decide without any other process or involvement of other party representatives - and forced Corbyn to continue as an independent MP (and Labour Party member!).

[Tito Fuente]

Re: Labour and anti Semitism.

This is not going to end well rember this Groundhog day

Speaking afterwards, Blair said: ‘Let no one say radical politics is dead. Today a new Labour Party is being born.’ For those on the left wing of the party the vote only confirmed how willing Labour was to jettison its socialist past to get elected.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/from-the-archive-blog/2015/apr/29/clause-four-labour-party-tony-blair-20-1995

And they came for him big time

"This is not going to end well"

3 general election wins in succession suggests that things went pretty well afterwards.

I can only assume that you meant that it won't end well for you and your brand of politics.

[JamesWales]

Re: Labour and anti Semitism.

A formal decision was made to re-admit Jeremy Corbyn to the Labour Party in November 2020 - by the NEC Disciplinary Panel - after a 19 day suspension. It wasn't difficult.

But Starmer refused to reinstate the whip - which is apparently something he can decide without any other process or involvement of other party representatives - and forced Corbyn to continue as an independent MP (and Labour Party member!).

Cheers for clarifying.👍

[jon1959]

Re: Labour and anti Semitism.

If the Labour anti Semitism crisis/scandal/hoax (delete according to taste) was all about hatred of Jews - it would be straightforward.

Some of the allegations and expulsions were exactly about that.

But a large % of the anti Semitism allegations were not about that at all - they were about anti Zionism. Which is why so many Jewish people and life-long anti racists were smeared with the anti Semitism allegation. 'Self hating Jews' is a favourite slur directed at Jewish people who reject the racist ideology of Zionism. Other favourite targets were people who shared satirical work by Jewish cartoonists criticising Israeli policy (starting with the Naz Shah affair).

There are many more Christian Zionists in the world than Jewish. Many of them for the last 150 years are also anti Semites who take the Bible literally but don't want Jewish people as neighbours, and want 'them' out of sight in a national homeland somewhere else. Or else far right populists (Hungary, Brazil, white South Africa) with anti Arab prejudices and an admiration for 'western' reactionaries. That also explains the presence of Israeli flags on British or US far right demonstrations.

The Trump administration was dominated by Christian Zionists (Pence Pompeo etc - though probably not Jared Kushner). And Pompeo has helpfully explained the thinking behind Trump's stance on Israel-Palestine as he tries to flog his book and test the water for a presidential run:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/feb/16/mike-pompeo-israel-biblical-claim-palestine-not-occupying

“[Israel] is not an occupying nation. As an evangelical Christian, I am convinced by my reading of the Bible that 3,000 years on now, in spite of the denial of so many, [this land] is the rightful homeland of the Jewish people,” he said.

“I am confident that the Lord is at work here,” he said.


This is the mindset that has encouraged occupation, apartheid, contempt for international law and the persecution of Palestinians and those prepared to stand with them - including Jewish anti Zionists. In the name of an ethno-religious supremacist state and the Bible.

Hatred of Jewish people as Jews is on the rise. The fight against that is not helped by cynical conflation of sick racism with principled opposition to a racist ideology or the actions of a rogue state. There are a few rogue states in the world, but only one gets a free pass, diplomatic cover, consistent UN veto protection and the endorsement of fundamentalist Bible bashers across the world.

[Dorcus]

Re: Labour and anti Semitism.

If the Labour anti Semitism crisis/scandal/hoax (delete according to taste) was all about hatred of Jews - it would be straightforward.

Some of the allegations and expulsions were exactly about that.

But a large % of the anti Semitism allegations were not about that at all - they were about anti Zionism. Which is why so many Jewish people and life-long anti racists were smeared with the anti Semitism allegation. 'Self hating Jews' is a favourite slur directed at Jewish people who reject the racist ideology of Zionism. Other favourite targets were people who shared satirical work by Jewish cartoonists criticising Israeli policy (starting with the Naz Shah affair).

There are many more Christian Zionists in the world than Jewish. Many of them for the last 150 years are also anti Semites who take the Bible literally but don't want Jewish people as neighbours, and want 'them' out of sight in a national homeland somewhere else. Or else far right populists (Hungary, Brazil, white South Africa) with anti Arab prejudices and an admiration for 'western' reactionaries. That also explains the presence of Israeli flags on British or US far right demonstrations.

The Trump administration was dominated by Christian Zionists (Pence Pompeo etc - though probably not Jared Kushner). And Pompeo has helpfully explained the thinking behind Trump's stance on Israel-Palestine as he tries to flog his book and test the water for a presidential run:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/feb/16/mike-pompeo-israel-biblical-claim-palestine-not-occupying

“[Israel] is not an occupying nation. As an evangelical Christian, I am convinced by my reading of the Bible that 3,000 years on now, in spite of the denial of so many, [this land] is the rightful homeland of the Jewish people,” he said.

“I am confident that the Lord is at work here,” he said.


This is the mindset that has encouraged occupation, apartheid, contempt for international law and the persecution of Palestinians and those prepared to stand with them - including Jewish anti Zionists. In the name of an ethno-religious supremacist state and the Bible.

Hatred of Jewish people as Jews is on the rise. The fight against that is not helped by cynical conflation of sick racism with principled opposition to a racist ideology or the actions of a rogue state. There are a few rogue states in the world, but only one gets a free pass, diplomatic cover, consistent UN veto protection and the endorsement of fundamentalist Bible bashers across the world.

Great post Jon, I hope it educates some.

[pipster]

Can a woman have a P enis

Big story too is not letting Jeremy Corbyn stand. I am no fan of Corbyn at all and his brand of politics totally put me off Labour in recent years but this does seem a slightly unnecessary source of conflict.

Starner needs to get control over the left of the party but he also probably needs to keep them on board instead of turning them into opponents or potentially another party, although I don't think a fringe left wing party in British politics would be a bad thing really.

Nonetheless Starner does seem increasingly authoritative and credible.

Until Starmer can answer the question Can a woman have a penis (in fact any politician) then they'll not got my vote. Starmer couldn't answer it , he couldn't even answer the question of whether Eddie Izard can stand on an all woman selection panel.

Ed Davey Lib Dems tried and failed , I havent heard Sunak answer that question - yet though.