Diversity - Is it going too far?

[Feedback]

Re: Diversity - Is it going too far?

None of that, just find it very very strange that there isn't one player of colour in that team photo. It's not a common sight these days.

^^^ this

As Jon1959 said at the outset, there may be a perfectly plausible reason why, but in this day and age, you're more likely to find rocking horse shit.

[Feedback]

Re: Diversity - Is it going too far?

It does suggest that there's something wrong somewhere along the line; whether it's subconscious bias in recruitment, or opportunities to play and train are not the same for everyone, or something else.

It doesn't mean that people at the top are cruel racists and this was done deliberately, but there must be a kink in the system somewhere.

Lardy comes in with the common sense, saying it like it is.

I doubt there is any thing Machiavellian going on, we just need to do more to get to the grass roots, so everyone has a chance

[Baloo]

Re: Diversity - Is it going too far?

I wouldn't say it's going too far. The photo perhaps suggests one way the top level of women's game can continue to develop and improve in the future. Through broader representation, like the trajectory seen in the men's game over time. Overall there is around 45% BAME representation in the EPL compared to around 10% in the WSL at present. Increasing diversity is an opportunity for women's football.

[NYCBlue]

Re: Diversity - Is it going too far?

What do you think they get put on websites without editors say so?! It's not Facebook

It's a story though isn't it? We're all talking about it. Why wouldn't the BBC put something that will become a talking point on their website? It wasn't exactly the top story and it wasn't being sensationalized. It's the editorial staff's job to fill their website with content.

[jon1959]

Re: Diversity - Is it going too far?

It does suggest that there's something wrong somewhere along the line; whether it's subconscious bias in recruitment, or opportunities to play and train are not the same for everyone, or something else.

It doesn't mean that people at the top are cruel racists and this was done deliberately, but there must be a kink in the system somewhere.

I just had a look at the Cardiff City Women team page - and there are 21 mug shots, all white. A major difference from the diversity of the mens' team pages - first team, u21s and u18s. And club clips of the Foundation at work often show mixed communities involved.

It may be (as Tuerto suggested) a reflection of the relative under-development of the women's game, or the way the club is identifying talent (in the summer they seemed to be looking at the best players from other clubs in the league - which may be a self-reinforcing strategy for maintaining the squad profile), or maybe some other reasonable explanation. Cardiff and South Wales is not as diverse as London (few places are) but as with Arsenal it does throw up some legitimate questions about opportunities.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Diversity - Is it going too far?

According to statistics that are readily available to read online, there's around 5000 people in Cardiff of Afro Caribbean heritage, and that includes 2nd 3rd generation. I have worked the areas you have highlighted every day for 6 years, sometimes visiting up to 12 properties per day. The three you mention are predominantly white. Splott, Adamsdown, Clifton st area is/has quite a strong African community developing. There are more people from African heritage than there is Caribbean in Cardiff.

That doesn't mean anything

Cardiff Council did a report that is available which shows the carribean community in Cardiff is very much under represented in official statistics , its online

Predominantly white doesn't mean there isn't a sizeable community of black , carribean or other groups it just means the majority are white

Even in Butetown the biggest ethnic group is white

[Tuerto]

Re: Diversity - Is it going too far?

Well Cardiff clearly doesn't have a Caribbean population like some boroughs in London or Birmingham but what do you consider significant or large etc ?

If it didn't have a sizeable Caribbean community why would it have afro Caribbean barbers and hairdressers and restaurants ?

The difference between Cardiffs Caribbean community is that it doesn't have a noticeable core like St Paul's or Handsworth

That's because the demolition of the Butetown area led to the community being spread all over Cardiff to Ely , Splott , Llanrumney etc

That doesn't mean anything

Cardiff Council did a report that is available which shows the carribean community in Cardiff is very much under represented in official statistics , its online

Predominantly white doesn't mean there isn't a sizeable community of black , carribean or other groups it just means the majority are white

Even in Butetown the biggest ethnic group is white

Ok, you know better than me. How many people of Caribbean heritage live in Cardiff. All I can do is offer statistics compiled by Government bodies, which match up with what I have said, and give anecdotal evidence in terms of my work, experience and the fact that I have lived in the city for most of my life. You're not really producing any evidence, just giving your opinion and dismissing everything I have said. I can't do links as I am shit with a computer and phone. If you can do them then link the evidence that you have that says I am wrong, based on statistical evidence and I'll say that I was wrong. It's not a problem for me.

[North Cardiff Blue]

Re: Diversity - Is it going too far?

Yeah this is what I was trying to get at when I said about opportunities above, but you've explained it much better.

If England wants to be the best they can, they need to have as big a pool as possible, which means reaching all the potential talent. The photo suggests either they're not doing that, or all the talent happens to be white. That's what I conclude when I saw the photo, not that arsenal must be racist and hate black women. There's clearly something stopping them from being there.

Agreed, I was trying to say the same too, diversity will follow as it becomes more mainstream for all young girls growing up.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Diversity - Is it going too far?

Ok, you know better than me. How many people of Caribbean heritage live in Cardiff. All I can do is offer statistics compiled by Government bodies, which match up with what I have said, and give anecdotal evidence in terms of my work, experience and the fact that I have lived in the city for most of my life. You're not really producing any evidence, just giving your opinion and dismissing everything I have said. I can't do links as I am shit with a computer and phone. If you can do them then link the evidence that you have that says I am wrong, based on statistical evidence and I'll say that I was wrong. It's not a problem for me.

Well clearly I do

It's clearly a problem for you evidenced by your arsey little response

[ToTaL ITK]

Re: Diversity - Is it going too far?

the practice or quality of including or involving people from a range of different social and ethnic backgrounds and of different genders, sexual orientations

just in case you don't know what it means

[Harry Paget Flashman]

Re: Diversity - Is it going too far?

I just had a look at the Cardiff City Women team page - and there are 21 mug shots, all white. A major difference from the diversity of the mens' team pages - first team, u21s and u18s. And club clips of the Foundation at work often show mixed communities involved.

It may be (as Tuerto suggested) a reflection of the relative under-development of the women's game, or the way the club is identifying talent (in the summer they seemed to be looking at the best players from other clubs in the league - which may be a self-reinforcing strategy for maintaining the squad profile), or maybe some other reasonable explanation. Cardiff and South Wales is not as diverse as London (few places are) but as with Arsenal it does throw up some legitimate questions about opportunities.

There's still a lot of issues with facilities for womens grassroots football, particularly for those with certain religious beliefs.

Changing rooms they use and shower areas are the ones that men use, all showering together and its off putting for many women.

There is a need for individual cubicles etc for changing and showering and that costs clubs money to invest.

[Once a blue,always a blue]

Re: Diversity - Is it going too far?

I don’t believe it’s diversity going too far - it appears it gone the other way but whether it’s unintentional or whether somethings going wrong in the recruitment process is the question.

They have a Swedish manager and have done for the past few years. 3 of the first team players are from Sweden. They have a mix of players from Denmark, Austria, Netherlands, Switzerland, Norway, England, Scotland, Republic of Ireland, Australia, Spain, Canada, USA and Brazil. It would suggest diversity is there when it comes to players from different countries but in terms of black players and also players from Asia there’s none. If you look across the entire women’s super league and championship it’s also an issue but in the men’s game it’s doesn’t appear to be a problem for many of the top clubs. The subject has also been raised with the England women’s squad too but the manager can only pick the best players from those who she has access to.

I would think and hope that it will be something that will improve opportunity wise over the next few years with many opportunities reaching girls from different backgrounds. That said in the past Arsenal women have had many black players in the squad before the rise in the women’s game.

Whilst on the subject of women’s football I’ve been watching them for the past few years and I absolutely love it. Once you get into it and you have your favourite club and you get to know who’s who it’s really great fun. There are rivalries but not on the same level but for example Arsenal women this season have has massive attendances. 55k on their first match and I think it was 35k on their 2nd home match. Obviously when they don’t play at the Emirates stadium they can’t get those crowds as the capacity of Meadow Park is on 5k odd but they always sell out. I think it’s only a matter of time before the top clubs share the men’s stadium full time.

I would recommend it to anyone - give it a go. Many matches for the top teams are also on tv for example BBC or ITv and some are on Sky. The Lionesses (England women) are playing this Friday evening live on ITV4 and the again Tues in the nations league. Whether they win or not is another thing but the gap has closed a lot now so you don’t get the massive score lines as much - there’s a lot of competition out there.

[life on mars]

Re: Diversity - Is it going too far?

Its turning folk into robots .

The younger generation will grow up frightened to have the strength to speak out , they will fear being cancelled or ignored .

My thoughts are the more mistakes you make the quicker you learn by them .

Classic example saying you don't agree with folk coming in on boats or I don't support BLM views and actions ,does not make you a racist

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Diversity - Is it going too far?

I don’t believe it’s diversity going too far - it appears it gone the other way but whether it’s unintentional or whether somethings going wrong in the recruitment process is the question.

They have a Swedish manager and have done for the past few years. 3 of the first team players are from Sweden. They have a mix of players from Denmark, Austria, Netherlands, Switzerland, Norway, England, Scotland, Republic of Ireland, Australia, Spain, Canada, USA and Brazil. It would suggest diversity is there when it comes to players from different countries but in terms of black players and also players from Asia there’s none. If you look across the entire women’s super league and championship it’s also an issue but in the men’s game it’s doesn’t appear to be a problem for many of the top clubs. The subject has also been raised with the England women’s squad too but the manager can only pick the best players from those who she has access to.

I would think and hope that it will be something that will improve opportunity wise over the next few years with many opportunities reaching girls from different backgrounds. That said in the past Arsenal women have had many black players in the squad before the rise in the women’s game.

Whilst on the subject of women’s football I’ve been watching them for the past few years and I absolutely love it. Once you get into it and you have your favourite club and you get to know who’s who it’s really great fun. There are rivalries but not on the same level but for example Arsenal women this season have has massive attendances. 55k on their first match and I think it was 35k on their 2nd home match. Obviously when they don’t play at the Emirates stadium they can’t get those crowds as the capacity of Meadow Park is on 5k odd but they always sell out. I think it’s only a matter of time before the top clubs share the men’s stadium full time.

I would recommend it to anyone - give it a go. Many matches for the top teams are also on tv for example BBC or ITv and some are on Sky. The Lionesses (England women) are playing this Friday evening live on ITV4 and the again Tues in the nations league. Whether they win or not is another thing but the gap has closed a lot now so you don’t get the massive score lines as much - there’s a lot of competition out there.

Glad someone has acknowledged my point that Arsenal had a representation of black players a decade and more ago. This is the thing that makes that photo something of a concern and rather debunks the theory that the women's game is struggling to keep up with representation for all colours and creeds in light of the huge rise in popularity of the women's game in recent years.

A search for the percentage of BAME players in the WSL brought back the following quote;-

"During the 2021-22 season, the Professional Footballers' Association (PFA), the trade union for English professional players, estimated that around 10 per cent of players in the top-flight Women's Super League (WSL) were from Black, Asian or minority ethnic (BAME) backgrounds."

According to the Szymanski Report published this year.

"This is against a background, highlighted in our 2022 report, where 43% of Premier League and 34% of Championship players are Black."

So, it would appear that while the WSL is light years ahead of the Premier League in acknowledging and accepting sexual diversity, the same is not wholly true when it comes to racial diversity (the Premier League and EPL still tend to have a problem with black managers mind). It would seem therefore that the line about the WSL struggling to keep pace with it's growth has some truth to it, but I'd also say that by rights there should be two or three non white faces in that team picture even under the lower BAME rates of their league and, when you think of the area they represent, it should really be higher still - given the figures, it's hardly surprising that questions are being asked.

[lardy]

Re: Diversity - Is it going too far?

Its turning folk into robots .

The younger generation will grow up frightened to have the strength to speak out , they will fear being cancelled or ignored .

My thoughts are the more mistakes you make the quicker you learn by them .

Classic example saying you don't agree with folk coming in on boats or I don't support BLM views and actions ,does not make you a racist

Nonsense, the young generation stands up for themselves, and more importantly each other, more than other generations, certainly more than mine.