Over the last 20 games

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Something struck me this morning looking over our recent results. When we lost 2-0 to Sheffield Utd our 4 league defeats to that point were all by 2 goals. In our 6 defeats since then in the league, we've only lost by more than 1 goal on 1 occasion.

I'm trying to look for some positives among the gloom.

We've only lost 6 of the last 20 league games. Only 6 sides in the Championship have lost fewer.

We've scored in all bar 2 of those 20 games. We've done that once since Malky was in charge.

We're not being well beaten, in terms of scoreline at least and we are capable of scoring late goals to change the results of games.

I notice that, since Riza took over, there have only been 6 games where either side has scored 3 or more in a game - us twice and the opposition on 4 occasions. At the moment, the days of losing more regularly and consistently by more than a goal are resigned to last season. I reckon that, if we were comfortably mid table, like we were at this point last season, our current form would be far less of an issue. Last season things were in some ways worse over the second half of the season than they are this season, but due to the good start made, some would have given the manager an extended deal. Now, I don't think anyone wants the current one. I include myself in this.

So why, despite some stats that are more than encouraging, are we in the state we are? Despite not conceding lots in some games, we're conceding goals nearly all the time. Our clean sheet record is dismal. We go on about urgency in our performances - that's probably a part of the reason we've drawn 9 of the last 20 and only won 5. Only losing 6 is tidy but only winning 5 is pretty woeful. In those 20 games we've scored first on 10 occasions but only drew 4 and lost 1. On the opposite side, of the 8 games where we've conceded first, we've only lost 4 and drawn the rest.

I have no idea how the next 5 games will pan out. We've had 11 league games where neither side has scored more than 2. Games are being won or lost by 1 goal or being drawn. On paper results are close enough that we could feasibly draw the last 5. Who knows. Yet, there is a feeling that when we've lost it's been deserved, while several of our draws have been perhaps lucky. We had a season of being even luckier a year ago - we could do with some of that now. Statistically there's hope and there's also despair. Seatbelts in, folks!

[billy.ronson]

Re: Over the last 20 games

Something struck me this morning looking over our recent results. When we lost 2-0 to Sheffield Utd our 4 league defeats to that point were all by 2 goals. In our 6 defeats since then in the league, we've only lost by more than 1 goal on 1 occasion.

I'm trying to look for some positives among the gloom.

We've only lost 6 of the last 20 league games. Only 6 sides in the Championship have lost fewer.

We've scored in all bar 2 of those 20 games. We've done that once since Malky was in charge.

We're not being well beaten, in terms of scoreline at least and we are capable of scoring late goals to change the results of games.

I notice that, since Riza took over, there have only been 6 games where either side has scored 3 or more in a game - us twice and the opposition on 4 occasions. At the moment, the days of losing more regularly and consistently by more than a goal are resigned to last season. I reckon that, if we were comfortably mid table, like we were at this point last season, our current form would be far less of an issue. Last season things were in some ways worse over the second half of the season than they are this season, but due to the good start made, some would have given the manager an extended deal. Now, I don't think anyone wants the current one. I include myself in this.

So why, despite some stats that are more than encouraging, are we in the state we are? Despite not conceding lots in some games, we're conceding goals nearly all the time. Our clean sheet record is dismal. We go on about urgency in our performances - that's probably a part of the reason we've drawn 9 of the last 20 and only won 5. Only losing 6 is tidy but only winning 5 is pretty woeful. In those 20 games we've scored first on 10 occasions but only drew 4 and lost 1. On the opposite side, of the 8 games where we've conceded first, we've only lost 4 and drawn the rest.

I have no idea how the next 5 games will pan out. We've had 11 league games where neither side has scored more than 2. Games are being won or lost by 1 goal or being drawn. On paper results are close enough that we could feasibly draw the last 5. Who knows. Yet, there is a feeling that when we've lost it's been deserved, while several of our draws have been perhaps lucky. We had a season of being even luckier a year ago - we could do with some of that now. Statistically there's hope and there's also despair. Seatbelts in, folks!

Those first 6 games under Bulut are really hurting us , just 1 point from 18 , not saying Riza is great but just another 3 points or so from start would given us some wiggle room .. sadly we now need these draws to be wins

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Re: Over the last 20 games

Those first 6 games under Bulut are really hurting us , just 1 point from 18 , not saying Riza is great but just another 3 points or so from start would given us some wiggle room .. sadly we now need these draws to be wins

In a league table of results since then we'd be 15th, 9 points clear of the bottom 3. Derby and Luton have had good runs recently, which has been unexpected, while we've had one of the poorer points hauls of teams near the bottom. Over another 5 games I wouldn't expect that to continue. If it does, credit to Derby and Luton, who looked doomed at one point. I've always maintained we control our own destiny. If we don't win enough points to stay up, credit to those who managed it.

I think another issue is that if one of our relegation rivals starts showing some form, our fans will expect that to continue. If we hit a bit of form, we'd expect our run to end soon. I'm sure fans of other clubs feel the same!

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Over the last 20 games

Unless we go down something like four or five points behind the team in twenty first place, it will be able to be argued with some justification that one point out of twenty one to start the season killed us. Okay, I accept “killed” is a bit over the top, but I can remember Nathan Blake saying that winning our first five games in 17/18 meant that we’d be up there challenging for promotion all season. Despite my doubts at the time, Blakey was proved right and so I would argue that the same should apply in reverse when we’re talking about a horrible start like the one we made - in fact, I’d say it’s a lot harder when you’ve made a really bad start to get clear off the bottom than it is to drop out of the top six having made the sort of start we did eight years ago.

Of course, Riza has messed up at times and I don’t like the way he changes our defence on what seems little more than a whim. I’d definitely get rid of him if we went down and I think there’s a very strong chance he’ll be gone even if we stay up, but the very strong likelihood is that Riza’s record in a month’s time would have us staying up if his record for the last forty games of the season was extended into the first six.

[Rjk]

Re: Over the last 20 games

Unless we go down something like four or five points behind the team in twenty first place, it will be able to be argued with some justification that one point out of twenty one to start the season killed us. Okay, I accept “killed” is a bit over the top, but I can remember Nathan Blake saying that winning our first five games in 17/18 meant that we’d be up there challenging for promotion all season. Despite my doubts at the time, Blakey was proved right and so I would argue that the same should apply in reverse when we’re talking about a horrible start like the one we made - in fact, I’d say it’s a lot harder when you’ve made a really bad start to get clear off the bottom than it is to drop out of the top six having made the sort of start we did eight years ago.

Of course, Riza has messed up at times and I don’t like the way he changes our defence on what seems little more than a whim. I’d definitely get rid of him if we went down and I think there’s a very strong chance he’ll be gone even if we stay up, but the very strong likelihood is that Riza’s record in a month’s time would have us staying up if his record for the last forty games of the season was extended into the first six.

yeah I think Riza is likely to be gone next season whatever happens this one, but you never know, it's hard to second guess Tan at the best of times.
Riza has made mistakes, and I think the constant changes aren't helping us. However our biggest issues are in areas that he doesn't coach - defense and set pieces - where he inherited
the coaches from the U21s or were already in position at the club.
it would be interesting to see how we would get on with an experienced defensive coach and a top set piece specialist on board, but I don't think we will get the chance to find out.

[Tuerto]

Re: Over the last 20 games

yeah I think Riza is likely to be gone next season whatever happens this one, but you never know, it's hard to second guess Tan at the best of times.
Riza has made mistakes, and I think the constant changes aren't helping us. However our biggest issues are in areas that he doesn't coach - defense and set pieces - where he inherited
the coaches from the U21s or were already in position at the club.
it would be interesting to see how we would get on with an experienced defensive coach and a top set piece specialist on board, but I don't think we will get the chance to find out.

I think that riza should go whatever the outcome, he's not up to it. But lets not kid ourselves, those players (the ones that liked him and wanted him to stay on) have let him down badly. Basic errors week after week, an inability to learn from their mistakes, the useless ****ers switch off, ball watch, or look clueless under pressure. This isn't a defence of Riza, i don't want him managing the club, but the players have done him as well, he can't coach them not to make error in real time, that's on them and their ability and character.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Re: Over the last 20 games

Unless we go down something like four or five points behind the team in twenty first place, it will be able to be argued with some justification that one point out of twenty one to start the season killed us. Okay, I accept “killed” is a bit over the top, but I can remember Nathan Blake saying that winning our first five games in 17/18 meant that we’d be up there challenging for promotion all season. Despite my doubts at the time, Blakey was proved right and so I would argue that the same should apply in reverse when we’re talking about a horrible start like the one we made - in fact, I’d say it’s a lot harder when you’ve made a really bad start to get clear off the bottom than it is to drop out of the top six having made the sort of start we did eight years ago.

Of course, Riza has messed up at times and I don’t like the way he changes our defence on what seems little more than a whim. I’d definitely get rid of him if we went down and I think there’s a very strong chance he’ll be gone even if we stay up, but the very strong likelihood is that Riza’s record in a month’s time would have us staying up if his record for the last forty games of the season was extended into the first six.

There'll be someone along soon to say Riza's record over those 6 games would have been the same....

[Pedro de la Rosa]

Re: Over the last 20 games

I think that riza should go whatever the outcome, he's not up to it. But lets not kid ourselves, those players (the ones that liked him and wanted him to stay on) have let him down badly. Basic errors week after week, an inability to learn from their mistakes, the useless ****ers switch off, ball watch, or look clueless under pressure. This isn't a defence of Riza, i don't want him managing the club, but the players have done him as well, he can't coach them not to make error in real time, that's on them and their ability and character.

Bingo, exactly how I feel. People are deluding themselves (to cope and convince themselves it'll be alright I feel) that players like Daland, Fish, Goutas etc, who make howler after howler are only playing this badly because of the manager is laughable. It is the basics they're not doing. Stay with your man, clear your lines, head the ball, it's simple stuff. If you need Riza to tell you to watch the big centre half at corners, the centre halves should be nowhere near the Championship. I'm picking on the centre halves because they're at it constantly but there's so many other candidates, and it is the young lads that are showing them up, in Bagan, Alves, Ashford etc

[North Cardiff Blue]

Re: Over the last 20 games

Something struck me this morning looking over our recent results. When we lost 2-0 to Sheffield Utd our 4 league defeats to that point were all by 2 goals. In our 6 defeats since then in the league, we've only lost by more than 1 goal on 1 occasion.

I'm trying to look for some positives among the gloom.

We've only lost 6 of the last 20 league games. Only 6 sides in the Championship have lost fewer.

We've scored in all bar 2 of those 20 games. We've done that once since Malky was in charge.

We're not being well beaten, in terms of scoreline at least and we are capable of scoring late goals to change the results of games.

I notice that, since Riza took over, there have only been 6 games where either side has scored 3 or more in a game - us twice and the opposition on 4 occasions. At the moment, the days of losing more regularly and consistently by more than a goal are resigned to last season. I reckon that, if we were comfortably mid table, like we were at this point last season, our current form would be far less of an issue. Last season things were in some ways worse over the second half of the season than they are this season, but due to the good start made, some would have given the manager an extended deal. Now, I don't think anyone wants the current one. I include myself in this.

So why, despite some stats that are more than encouraging, are we in the state we are? Despite not conceding lots in some games, we're conceding goals nearly all the time. Our clean sheet record is dismal. We go on about urgency in our performances - that's probably a part of the reason we've drawn 9 of the last 20 and only won 5. Only losing 6 is tidy but only winning 5 is pretty woeful. In those 20 games we've scored first on 10 occasions but only drew 4 and lost 1. On the opposite side, of the 8 games where we've conceded first, we've only lost 4 and drawn the rest.

I have no idea how the next 5 games will pan out. We've had 11 league games where neither side has scored more than 2. Games are being won or lost by 1 goal or being drawn. On paper results are close enough that we could feasibly draw the last 5. Who knows. Yet, there is a feeling that when we've lost it's been deserved, while several of our draws have been perhaps lucky. We had a season of being even luckier a year ago - we could do with some of that now. Statistically there's hope and there's also despair. Seatbelts in, folks!

Yes we are doing miles better at 21st than last season's 12th

Why do they insist on league tables based on wins, losses and draws, why not do them on teams that only lose by one, get more points than teams winning by one, it's just not fair

[North Cardiff Blue]

Re: Over the last 20 games

In a league table of results since then we'd be 15th, 9 points clear of the bottom 3. Derby and Luton have had good runs recently, which has been unexpected, while we've had one of the poorer points hauls of teams near the bottom. Over another 5 games I wouldn't expect that to continue. If it does, credit to Derby and Luton, who looked doomed at one point. I've always maintained we control our own destiny. If we don't win enough points to stay up, credit to those who managed it.

I think another issue is that if one of our relegation rivals starts showing some form, our fans will expect that to continue. If we hit a bit of form, we'd expect our run to end soon. I'm sure fans of other clubs feel the same!

Yes maybe we can take the second games out against Leeds, Burnley, and Sunderland too, then we'd be even higher, maybe someone should contact the league, get them canceled, and go on your stats instead of the league table, that way we would stay up?

[North Cardiff Blue]

Re: Over the last 20 games

We are going down PROBABLY despite Alves, Salech, Davies, Robertson, and Mannsverk, with a decent Manager we would be mid-table.

Although beat Stoke and you never know.

[North Cardiff Blue]

Re: Over the last 20 games

I think that riza should go whatever the outcome, he's not up to it. But lets not kid ourselves, those players (the ones that liked him and wanted him to stay on) have let him down badly. Basic errors week after week, an inability to learn from their mistakes, the useless ****ers switch off, ball watch, or look clueless under pressure. This isn't a defence of Riza, i don't want him managing the club, but the players have done him as well, he can't coach them not to make error in real time, that's on them and their ability and character.

Too right, he can go and practice football Manager in the Women's League or Cardiff Combination !

[The Lone Gunman]

Re: Over the last 20 games

There'll be someone along soon to say Riza's record over those 6 games would have been the same....

So how many extra points do you reckon City would have picked up in the first six games if Omer Riza had been in charge?

[Tuerto]

Re: Over the last 20 games

So how many extra points do you reckon City would have picked up in the first six games if Omer Riza had been in charge?

Not many, and it doesn't matter. This is the point i was making in another thread in reply to jon, we could be where Swansea or oxford are in the table, whoopy ****in doo, this is how far things have dropped off, we're arguing over who is shitter, not who is better, absolute race to the bottom of a club. A question, out of the players, how many of them are on the up? how many of them are increasing in value, turning out performances, looking like a real asset? Salech, Ashford and that's it i think, and they've gone off the boil, although they can be excused. The rest of them have gone backwards in every respect with us, yet we keep arguing the toss over these clowns on the pitch and the crew that are in place to improve them, or even make them stop doing the things that cost us. We'll scrape up i reckon, but make no mistake, it's utter shit in every respect.

[19bluebirds27]

Re: Over the last 20 games

Those first 6 games under Bulut are really hurting us , just 1 point from 18 , not saying Riza is great but just another 3 points or so from start would given us some wiggle room .. sadly we now need these draws to be wins

In a nutshell - our lack points here could be the missing difference.

As much as a slow start we had - pre season we played 8 matches being unbeaten in the last 7.
Winning 5 and scoring 19 - if you included Penybont game as preparation.
Nothing to suggest we were going for to be so shit - other than perhaps the workload was too much?