Over the last 20 games

[Father Dougal]

Re: Over the last 20 games

Joking aside from that other legendary thread it was a tricky start. Playing 3 of the top 4- who have been the top 4 all season- in the first 6 games WAS a tough start.

In that other thread some people were saying Sunderland wasn't a tough start as we finished above them last season. Those people were wrong.

However Bulut got 1 point from those 6 games.

Riza has got 7 points in the return fixtures (wins v swansea Derby and a draw at Middlesbrough). Which is on par for rizas whole season. Obviously he lost his 3 games v the top 4 also.

[2b2bdoo]

Re: Over the last 20 games

Something struck me this morning looking over our recent results. When we lost 2-0 to Sheffield Utd our 4 league defeats to that point were all by 2 goals. In our 6 defeats since then in the league, we've only lost by more than 1 goal on 1 occasion.

I'm trying to look for some positives among the gloom.

We've only lost 6 of the last 20 league games. Only 6 sides in the Championship have lost fewer.

We've scored in all bar 2 of those 20 games. We've done that once since Malky was in charge.

We're not being well beaten, in terms of scoreline at least and we are capable of scoring late goals to change the results of games.

I notice that, since Riza took over, there have only been 6 games where either side has scored 3 or more in a game - us twice and the opposition on 4 occasions. At the moment, the days of losing more regularly and consistently by more than a goal are resigned to last season. I reckon that, if we were comfortably mid table, like we were at this point last season, our current form would be far less of an issue. Last season things were in some ways worse over the second half of the season than they are this season, but due to the good start made, some would have given the manager an extended deal. Now, I don't think anyone wants the current one. I include myself in this.

So why, despite some stats that are more than encouraging, are we in the state we are? Despite not conceding lots in some games, we're conceding goals nearly all the time. Our clean sheet record is dismal. We go on about urgency in our performances - that's probably a part of the reason we've drawn 9 of the last 20 and only won 5. Only losing 6 is tidy but only winning 5 is pretty woeful. In those 20 games we've scored first on 10 occasions but only drew 4 and lost 1. On the opposite side, of the 8 games where we've conceded first, we've only lost 4 and drawn the rest.

I have no idea how the next 5 games will pan out. We've had 11 league games where neither side has scored more than 2. Games are being won or lost by 1 goal or being drawn. On paper results are close enough that we could feasibly draw the last 5. Who knows. Yet, there is a feeling that when we've lost it's been deserved, while several of our draws have been perhaps lucky. We had a season of being even luckier a year ago - we could do with some of that now. Statistically there's hope and there's also despair. Seatbelts in, folks!

It’s always felt like we are the “almost team”, games generally feel tight, I think in quite a few games we have been the better team but we always have that mistake in us, especially at the back. I think on another day we could have beat Sheffield Wednesday and QPR, thought we were the better team. Equally we were awful at Preston and came away with a point. Feels like it could click and we start turning those draws into wins or equally go the other way. A very fragile team.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Re: Over the last 20 games

So how many extra points do you reckon City would have picked up in the first six games if Omer Riza had been in charge?

Who knows. What if he'd had a preseason and been allowed to bring in his own players? It's a different ball game then. Riza, as any other new manager would have had to do, took over a side built by the previous boss. Bulut built a side to play a certain way, Riza has a different philosophy. We might discover what that is one day when some poor, unsuspecting club takes him on.

I feel absolutely certain we wouldn't have had just 1 point from those games. Guessing on what has happened since Riza took over, we would have probably drawn 4 of them, throwing away a few leads into the bargain.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Re: Over the last 20 games

Yes we are doing miles better at 21st than last season's 12th :hehe:

Why do they insist on league tables based on wins, losses and draws, why not do them on teams that only lose by one, get more points than teams winning by one, it's just not fair :hehe:

Another day goes by where you demonstrate how clueless you really are. Keep them coming. You're becoming a source of hilarity with my 12 year old boy.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Re: Over the last 20 games

It’s always felt like we are the “almost team”, games generally feel tight, I think in quite a few games we have been the better team but we always have that mistake in us, especially at the back. I think on another day we could have beat Sheffield Wednesday and QPR, thought we were the better team. Equally we were awful at Preston and came away with a point. Feels like it could click and we start turning those draws into wins or equally go the other way. A very fragile team.

That's a good summary in my view. My feeling is that the worm has turned the wrong way and we're looking more fragile as we enter the dying embers of the season .

[North Cardiff Blue]

Re: Over the last 20 games

Another day goes by where you demonstrate how clueless you really are. Keep them coming. You're becoming a source of hilarity with my 12 year old boy.

You should have got him to post instead of you when his football knowledge surpassed yours, but of course, he couldn't type at eighteen months old :hehe:

[The Lone Gunman]

Re: Over the last 20 games

Who knows. What if he'd had a preseason and been allowed to bring in his own players? It's a different ball game then.

It's also a ludicrous scenario to envisage.

Nobody would have given Riza a job as a Championship manager during the summer. Absolutely nobody. Indeed, he wasn't even first choice for the coaching job here. He only got it after James Rowberry turned it down.

You say: "I feel absolutely certain we wouldn't have had just 1 point from those games." Based on everything we've seen from the team subsequently, I've no idea how you can draw that conclusion or where you think the extra points would have come from.

[North Cardiff Blue]

Re: Over the last 20 games

It's also a ludicrous scenario to envisage.

Nobody would have given Riza a job as a Championship manager during the summer. Absolutely nobody. Indeed, he wasn't even first choice for the coaching job here. He only got it after James Rowberry turned it down.

You say: "I feel absolutely certain we wouldn't have had just 1 point from those games." Based on everything we've seen from the team subsequently, I've no idea how you can draw that conclusion or where you think the extra points would have come from.

He's a cracking bloke, but that was no reason to give him the job, there were loads of experienced reasonably well thought of Managers available at that time, I knew the next Manager would be another coach cheap gamble.

Did you see the interview, he doesn't like the term, Tinkerman and answered why he chops and changes the back four so often.

[Pedro de la Rosa]

Re: Over the last 20 games

It’s always felt like we are the “almost team”, games generally feel tight, I think in quite a few games we have been the better team but we always have that mistake in us, especially at the back. I think on another day we could have beat Sheffield Wednesday and QPR, thought we were the better team. Equally we were awful at Preston and came away with a point. Feels like it could click and we start turning those draws into wins or equally go the other way. A very fragile team.

Games are won and lost in both boxes, we aren't good enough in their box to make up for our massive failings in our own box. This was the same case last season, and again we are getting out of jail when we have no choice but to chuck men forward in the dying minutes out of desperation.

In the Morison/Hudson/Sabri season, we were so bad going forwards, it didn't matter how solid we were. Eventually the pressure told and we'd concede as the other team didn't have to defend at all :hehe:

[2b2bdoo]

Re: Over the last 20 games

Games are won and lost in both boxes, we aren't good enough in their box to make up for our massive failings in our own box. This was the same case last season, and again we are getting out of jail when we have no choice but to chuck men forward in the dying minutes out of desperation.

In the Morison/Hudson/Sabri season, we were so bad going forwards, it didn't matter how solid we were. Eventually the pressure told and we'd concede as the other team didn't have to defend at all :hehe:

Pretty much same as BulutBall, teams knew if they could defend set pieces well enough they had a great chance of beating us.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Re: Over the last 20 games

You say: "I feel absolutely certain we wouldn't have had just 1 point from those games." Based on everything we've seen from the team subsequently, I've no idea how you can draw that conclusion or where you think the extra points would have come from.

It's quite simple. Even under our worst 6 game spell under Riza we've won 2 points. We were also that bad under Bulut that I reckon Sludge Factory could have come in and done a better job.

I get that you're not a fan of Riza in the slightest. I'd probably suggest you've been his biggest critic since day one. Some seem to think that I've somehow been a fan of his, but that's not true. I just see him as better than Bulut, who, if he'd carried on, I'd probably have given up on the club this season. I'm happy to cut him a small amount of slack, given the job he's had to do and what he had to take over from, and I know you'd rather shove your genitals in a hornet's nest than give him any slack, so our opinions are likely to differ at times.

However, Riza is our draw expert. Under him we've had some creditable draws against sides in the top half. Yes, I'd have expected us to lose to Burnley and Leeds, maybe even Sunderland, but there's not much to suggest that Derby and Boro would both have beaten us as they did. We might even have beaten Swansea away. We'll never know and this is all just opinions.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Re: Over the last 20 games

Pretty much same as BulutBall, teams knew if they could defend set pieces well enough they had a great chance of beating us.

A lot of the time they just had to defend the second ball. That was where we were very effective. I remember looking at the stats some time in November/December possibly, and our rate of scoring goals from set pieces was stupidly high, so high there wasn't a cat's chance of us keeping up that rate. It dropped off, quite understandably, and so did the number of goals we scored.

[The Lone Gunman]

Re: Over the last 20 games

It's quite simple. Even under our worst 6 game spell under Riza we've won 2 points. We were also that bad under Bulut that I reckon Sludge Factory could have come in and done a better job.

I get that you're not a fan of Riza in the slightest. I'd probably suggest you've been his biggest critic since day one. Some seem to think that I've somehow been a fan of his, but that's not true. I just see him as better than Bulut, who, if he'd carried on, I'd probably have given up on the club this season. I'm happy to cut him a small amount of slack, given the job he's had to do and what he had to take over from, and I know you'd rather shove your genitals in a hornet's nest than give him any slack, so our opinions are likely to differ at times.

However, Riza is our draw expert. Under him we've had some creditable draws against sides in the top half. Yes, I'd have expected us to lose to Burnley and Leeds, maybe even Sunderland, but there's not much to suggest that Derby and Boro would both have beaten us as they did. We might even have beaten Swansea away. We'll never know and this is all just opinions.

Derby started the season well. They had played two home games before us and had already beaten Boro 1-0 and Bristol City 3-0. They beat us 1-0 and we're lucky it wasn't 2-0 or 3-0.

The Boro home game was standard stuff - a better team beating us.

The Swansea draw was also standard stuff. After all, we've drawn no less than 11 away games season.

If we'd got one more point from those first six games it would have been a surprise in retrospect. We were rubbish then. We've not been any better since. But the suggestion that things might have been different if Riza had been in charge for those six games is, in my opinion, laughable. Although I guess Leeds might have stuck five or six on us if he'd been selecting the side...

[North Cardiff Blue]

Re: Over the last 20 games

It's quite simple. Even under our worst 6 game spell under Riza we've won 2 points. We were also that bad under Bulut that I reckon Sludge Factory could have come in and done a better job.

I get that you're not a fan of Riza in the slightest. I'd probably suggest you've been his biggest critic since day one. Some seem to think that I've somehow been a fan of his, but that's not true. I just see him as better than Bulut, who, if he'd carried on, I'd probably have given up on the club this season. I'm happy to cut him a small amount of slack, given the job he's had to do and what he had to take over from, and I know you'd rather shove your genitals in a hornet's nest than give him any slack, so our opinions are likely to differ at times.

However, Riza is our draw expert. Under him we've had some creditable draws against sides in the top half. Yes, I'd have expected us to lose to Burnley and Leeds, maybe even Sunderland, but there's not much to suggest that Derby and Boro would both have beaten us as they did. We might even have beaten Swansea away. We'll never know and this is all just opinions.

You do realise that Bulut finished 12th and with a better squad Riza will finish in and around the relegation zone?

I would add one point at the most if Riza had the first six games with Kanga as the new Striker and big hope for the season against mostly top teams which you've already said we can't beat.

[North Cardiff Blue]

Re: Over the last 20 games

Derby started the season well. They had played two home games before us and had already beaten Boro 1-0 and Bristol City 3-0. They beat us 1-0 and we're lucky it wasn't 2-0 or 3-0.

The Boro home game was standard stuff - a better team beating us.

The Swansea draw was also standard stuff. After all, we've drawn no less than 11 away games season.

If we'd got one more point from those first six games it would have been a surprise in retrospect. We were rubbish then. We've not been any better since. But the suggestion that things might have been different if Riza had been in charge for those six games is, in my opinion, laughable. Although I guess Leeds might have stuck five or six on us if he'd been selecting the side...

You've changed your tune mind, you were saying they were standard fixtures at the start of the season when I pointed all this out to you and Eric.

Still I got through to you in the end :thumbup: