Are we that good?

[Rjk]

Re: Are we that good?

The players deserve credit as well, for taking on what is expected of them by the manager and his coaching staff. It's a two way thing. I think that we will do pretty well in the championship, I've spoken to other people whose opinion I respect and they're in your camp. I just think that Barry Murphy is adaptable, thinks quickly, isn't afraid of change and expects from players, whatever their age and however they have played previously. His football ( in my opinion) leaves a fair bit of room for change. For the first time ever we have a manager who isn't scared to try things that most of us wouldn't think of doing.

Does Mick McCarthy playing 5 centre backs count as managers trying things that most of us wouldn't think of doing?

The last time that BBM was managing a weaker than average side was his Rochdale team, and their fans were full of criticism about his appointment to us, saying he's too tactically inflexible, naïve etc - it does seem as though he's added a few strings to his bow in that respect, but that aspect of his reign will get a much more thorough examination if we are promoted.

[Pedro de la Rosa]

Re: Are we that good?

The players deserve credit as well, for taking on what is expected of them by the manager and his coaching staff. It's a two way thing. I think that we will do pretty well in the championship, I've spoken to other people whose opinion I respect and they're in your camp. I just think that Barry Murphy is adaptable, thinks quickly, isn't afraid of change and expects from players, whatever their age and however they have played previously. His football ( in my opinion) leaves a fair bit of room for change. For the first time ever we have a manager who isn't scared to try things that most of us wouldn't think of doing.

We beat Burnley, and deserved it. We beat Wrexham and deserved it. We were drawing with Chelsea in the 82nd minute playing a variation of our way. We've got the potential to kick on because every time we step up, the players and the manager take it in their stride. They know exactly what they're doing and they're able to do it.

We have balls too. We've got 18 points from falling behind this season, and we've only dropped 2 points all season when we've scored first. It obviously helps that in my opinion we've got the best 20 or so players in the league but it's all well and good saying that, they're proving it.

[The Lone Gunman]

Re: Are we that good?

Yes, we’re definitely that good by League One standards this season. Cardiff City are comfortably the best side in the division right now, but I think it would be sensible to be realistic about the situation we’ve found ourselves in.

The truth is that most of the players in the current squad were brought into the club with a view to improving City’s position in the Championship. Decent transfer fees were paid for some of them, while decent wages and signing-on fees were paid to almost all of them.

The exceptions are the four younger professionals who had broken into the first team reckoning while the club was in the second tier (Ashford, Bagan, Colwill snr and Davies), the three youngsters who have managed to establish themselves in the senior side this season (Colwill jnr, Lawor and Kpakio) and the three new signings, who all looked high-quality acquisitions for a League One club when they arrived.

BBM has been doing a great job, there is no doubt about that. However, the fact is he didn’t have to build a side from scratch. He inherited a squad full of Championship players who had underperformed badly last season, along with a clutch of talented youngsters who were already at the club. He’s added a small number of quality signings and has done brilliantly to change both the team’s culture and playing style. I like him a lot and can’t fault him at all, but I don’t think he’s worked a miracle in getting this set of players to the top of this division.

I’ve been genuinely surprised by how few players within the squads of our League One rivals have any sort of real experience at Championship level or above, especially by comparison to our squad. I’ve also been pleasantly surprised by how most of the teams in this division try to play, and I’m sure I’m not the only City fan thinking that way.

I expected League One to provide us with a much sterner physical challenge, but most of our opponents seem to want to play out from the back and keep the ball on the ground. That often plays into our hands to a large degree as our group of players is simply much better in terms of natural ability than most of those we’re facing at this level. There are a few sides who do provide a strong test in physical terms, but not many. Most of the teams in League One this season have looked surprisingly lightweight.

Having said all of the above, the fact is City haven’t been blowing teams away on a regular basis. After all, Tuesday’s thumping victory over a weak Barnsley outfit was our first by more than one goal in two months. We’re a very good side by this division’s standards at present, no doubt about that, but we’re not brilliant.

[PaulWent76]

Re: Are we that good?

Yes, weÂ’re definitely that good by League One standards this season. Cardiff City are comfortably the best side in the division right now, but I think it would be sensible to be realistic about the situation weÂ’ve found ourselves in.

The truth is that most of the players in the current squad were brought into the club with a view to improving CityÂ’s position in the Championship. Decent transfer fees were paid for some of them, while decent wages and signing-on fees were paid to almost all of them.

The exceptions are the four younger professionals who had broken into the first team reckoning while the club was in the second tier (Ashford, Bagan, Colwill snr and Davies), the three youngsters who have managed to establish themselves in the senior side this season (Colwill jnr, Lawor and Kpakio) and the three new signings, who all looked high-quality acquisitions for a League One club when they arrived.

BBM has been doing a great job, there is no doubt about that. However, the fact is he didnÂ’t have to build a side from scratch. He inherited a squad full of Championship players who had underperformed badly last season, along with a clutch of talented youngsters who were already at the club. HeÂ’s added a small number of quality signings and has done brilliantly to change both the teamÂ’s culture and playing style. I like him a lot and canÂ’t fault him at all, but I donÂ’t think heÂ’s worked a miracle in getting this set of players to the top of this division.

IÂ’ve been genuinely surprised by how few players within the squads of our League One rivals have any sort of real experience at Championship level or above, especially by comparison to our squad. IÂ’ve also been pleasantly surprised by how most of the teams in this division try to play, and IÂ’m sure IÂ’m not the only City fan thinking that way.

I expected League One to provide us with a much sterner physical challenge, but most of our opponents seem to want to play out from the back and keep the ball on the ground. That often plays into our hands to a large degree as our group of players is simply much better in terms of natural ability than most of those weÂ’re facing at this level. There are a few sides who do provide a strong test in physical terms, but not many. Most of the teams in League One this season have looked surprisingly lightweight.

Having said all of the above, the fact is City havenÂ’t been blowing teams away on a regular basis. After all, TuesdayÂ’s thumping victory over a weak Barnsley outfit was our first by more than one goal in two months. WeÂ’re a very good side by this divisionÂ’s standards at present, no doubt about that, but weÂ’re not brilliant.

I was going to write a more lengthy reply but I'll keep it brief:
Damned by faint praise AGAIN!

[The Lone Gunman]

Re: Are we that good?

I was going to write a more lengthy reply but I'll keep it brief:
Damned by faint praise AGAIN!

Yes, well, you appear to be… how can I phrase this kindly? Let’s say ‘emotional’…

This time last year, I had people like you grizzling at me because I dared to suggest that Riza was a chancer who should be nowhere a Championship manager’s job.

I just say it how I see it, not how I’d like it to be. If that grates with some of the more precious members of this particular online community, then so be it.

We have a squad full of Championship players. They’re doing well in League One, where the standard this season is significantly lower than the division in which they have spent most of their careers. We’re all glad about that, I’m sure.

[Tuerto]

Re: Are we that good?

Yes, well, you appear to be… how can I phrase this kindly? Let’s say ‘emotional’…

This time last year, I had people like you grizzling at me because I dared to suggest that Riza was a chancer who should be nowhere a Championship manager’s job.

I just say it how I see it, not how I’d like it to be. If that grates with some of the more precious members of this particular online community, then so be it.

We have a squad full of Championship players. They’re doing well in League One, where the standard this season is significantly lower than the division in which they have spent most of their careers. We’re all glad about that, I’m sure.

Why did you have to bring Riza up? :hehe:

[PaulWent76]

Re: Are we that good?

Yes, well, you appear to be… how can I phrase this kindly? Let’s say ‘emotional’…

This time last year, I had people like you grizzling at me because I dared to suggest that Riza was a chancer who should be nowhere a Championship managerÂ’s job.

I just say it how I see it, not how IÂ’d like it to be. If that grates with some of the more precious members of this particular online community, then so be it.

We have a squad full of Championship players. TheyÂ’re doing well in League One, where the standard this season is significantly lower than the division in which they have spent most of their careers. WeÂ’re all glad about that, IÂ’m sure.

Please don't worry about being kind to me TLG.

I'd value you pointing out where I grizzled when you commented about our former manager.

I'm an engineer by trade. To me a glass is partially full of gas and the rest contains liquid. Please put me right if I'm wrong in suggesting your glass appears to be less than half full of delicious liquid.

[The Lone Gunman]

Re: Are we that good?

Please don't worry about being kind to me TLG.

I'd value you pointing out where I grizzled when you commented about our former manager.

I'm an engineer by trade. To me a glass is partially full of gas and the rest contains liquid. Please put me right if I'm wrong in suggesting your glass appears to be less than half full of delicious liquid.

I said people like you, not you personally. The ‘glass partially full of gas’ merchants.

Let me ask you a question: do you have any firm opinions of your own? If so, you rarely seem to express them. Instead, you merely make thinly-veiled complaints about the opinions of others.

Instead of whining about me damning the team with faint praise, why don’t you lavish them with fulsome praise? You know you want to. It’s OK, you can do it. Nobody will be offended.

[jon1959]

Re: Are we that good?

Yes, we’re definitely that good by League One standards this season. Cardiff City are comfortably the best side in the division right now, but I think it would be sensible to be realistic about the situation we’ve found ourselves in.

The truth is that most of the players in the current squad were brought into the club with a view to improving City’s position in the Championship. Decent transfer fees were paid for some of them, while decent wages and signing-on fees were paid to almost all of them.

The exceptions are the four younger professionals who had broken into the first team reckoning while the club was in the second tier (Ashford, Bagan, Colwill snr and Davies), the three youngsters who have managed to establish themselves in the senior side this season (Colwill jnr, Lawor and Kpakio) and the three new signings, who all looked high-quality acquisitions for a League One club when they arrived.

BBM has been doing a great job, there is no doubt about that. However, the fact is he didn’t have to build a side from scratch. He inherited a squad full of Championship players who had underperformed badly last season, along with a clutch of talented youngsters who were already at the club. He’s added a small number of quality signings and has done brilliantly to change both the team’s culture and playing style. I like him a lot and can’t fault him at all, but I don’t think he’s worked a miracle in getting this set of players to the top of this division.

I’ve been genuinely surprised by how few players within the squads of our League One rivals have any sort of real experience at Championship level or above, especially by comparison to our squad. I’ve also been pleasantly surprised by how most of the teams in this division try to play, and I’m sure I’m not the only City fan thinking that way.

I expected League One to provide us with a much sterner physical challenge, but most of our opponents seem to want to play out from the back and keep the ball on the ground. That often plays into our hands to a large degree as our group of players is simply much better in terms of natural ability than most of those we’re facing at this level. There are a few sides who do provide a strong test in physical terms, but not many. Most of the teams in League One this season have looked surprisingly lightweight.

Having said all of the above, the fact is City haven’t been blowing teams away on a regular basis. After all, Tuesday’s thumping victory over a weak Barnsley outfit was our first by more than one goal in two months. We’re a very good side by this division’s standards at present, no doubt about that, but we’re not brilliant.

I think you have got that about right.

However, what gives me more confidence in the future is that BBM appears to have got his teeth into Cardiff as a long term project. He does not appear to be mainly driven by the short term or by money or status although no doubt those are considerations - that might be an act but I don't think so.

He is constantly pointing out the need and the scope for improvement - both individually, as a team, and as a coaching team. He is not satisfied with what has been done so far, and expects the current squad with some additions to go much further. That all plays to any romantic attachments to the club and to hard headed realism. We are good. But this is League One. We can and will get better.

I am confident (despite the obvious problems with the Board), that if BBM stays and we get promoted that we can keep moving up.

[The Lone Gunman]

Re: Are we that good?

I think you have got that about right.

However, what gives me more confidence in the future is that BBM appears to have got his teeth into Cardiff as a long term project. He does not appear to be mainly driven by the short term or by money or status although no doubt those are considerations - that might be an act but I don't think so.

He is constantly pointing out the need and the scope for improvement - both individually, as a team, and as a coaching team. He is not satisfied with what has been done so far, and expects the current squad with some additions to go much further. That all plays to any romantic attachments to the club and to hard headed realism. We are good. But this is League One. We can and will get better.

I am confident (despite the obvious problems with the Board), that if BBM stays and we get promoted that we can keep moving up.

I’d share that confidence if BBM is properly backed by Tan & Co, but wouldn’t share it if he was told to go again at the higher level with effectively the same squad.

I’ve said before I’m confident BBM already knows he’ll need some significant squad changes if the team is to progress again next season. Others believe we’d be fine at the next level up with the current squad, but I don’t share that view. I do, however, think the manager will know what is necessary. I’ve got confidence in his judgement.

[PaulWent76]

Re: Are we that good?

I said people like you, not you personally. The ‘glass partially full of gas’ merchants.

Let me ask you a question: do you have any firm opinions of your own? If so, you rarely seem to express them. Instead, you merely make thinly-veiled complaints about the opinions of others.

Instead of whining about me damning the team with faint praise, why donÂ’t you lavish them with fulsome praise? You know you want to. ItÂ’s OK, you can do it. Nobody will be offended.

Ok. I give in.
We are top of the league by four points and 10 ahead of 3rd place. When I've seen us this year I've enjoyed it immensely even if we haven't won. I give great praise to BBM for the turnaround. I worry that the Board also deserve praise but as TOBW said a stopped clock is right twice a day.
I'm sorry my complaints seem thinly veiled. How about this: people who seek to see problems where there aren't any (presently) annoy and confuse the crap out of me. Particularly people like your good self who actually have a good grasp of facts. I am sure at some point in the future we won't be top of the league and then there will be different conversations.
I leave the judgement about who is whining up to others. Of course I think you are the biggest whinger on this board and you possibly think the same of me. We can probably both live with it.

[The Lone Gunman]

Re: Are we that good?

So what is it that I have whinged about in this thread, other than your constant grizzling?

[PaulWent76]

Re: Are we that good?

So what is it that I have whinged about in this thread, other than your constant grizzling?

You're an intelligent person so I won't bother copying the definition of damned by faint praise again. I won't be able to convince you that it applies to your post so let's both agree you're right and I'm wrong then we can get on with supporting the City in our own ways. Enjoy the match tomorrow. It'll be a tough one.

[Feedback]

Re: Are we that good?

BBM has been doing a great job, there is no doubt about that. However, the fact is he didn’t have to build a side from scratch. He inherited a squad full of Championship players who had underperformed badly last season, along with a clutch of talented youngsters who were already at the club. He’s added a small number of quality signings and has done brilliantly to change both the team’s culture and playing style. I like him a lot and can’t fault him at all, but I don’t think he’s worked a miracle in getting this set of players to the top of this division.

agree with a lot of what you're saying...here's a question for you, do you think if we had BBM as manager last season adopting the way we play today, we'd have gone down?

If the answer is no, then I'd like to think we'd survive in the Championship with the current side, should we get promoted.

[The Lone Gunman]

Re: Are we that good?

agree with a lot of what you're saying...here's a question for you, do you think if we had BBM as manager last season adopting the way we play today, we'd have gone down?

If the answer is no, then I'd like to think we'd survive in the Championship with the current side, should we get promoted.

I think it would have depended on when he was installed. If the club had bombed Bulut out at the end of 2023/24 and installed BBM as manager at that stage, I think there's every chance we would have stayed up as I think the squad would have looked quite different during 2024/25.

If he'd been brought in midway through the season, and had to work with what he was given, I think it's possible but not probable. I don't think he'd have wasted much time with the likes of El Ghazi, Ramsey, Meiete, etc, but the whole make-up of the squad was different last season. For instance, I don't think the likes of Lawlor, Kpakio and Colwill jnr would have been ready to step straight into a Championship relegation battle and we had two goalkeepers who were average on a good day. The atmosphere in the dressing room and around the training ground would have been quite different too and turning that around would have been an uphill struggle.

We got relegated at the right time. The club badly needed a reset of sorts and it got one. BBM was quickly able to assess what he had and what he felt he needed, and change the culture within the squad accordingly. He was able to offload the likes of Ralls, O'Dowda (both currently injured again...) and Rinhomota, clear the decks of the real deadwood like El Ghazi, Ramsey and Meite, and sideline the two senior keepers who weren't good enough. He did a fine job of shaking things up while at the same time not decimating the squad, as happened at Luton and Plymouth following their relegations.

The irony of the likes of PW76 grizzling at me is that when last season ended, plenty of contributors on here genuinely feared a second relegation in succession, while some thought we'd be stuck in this division for years. I wasn't one of those people. I stated on numerous occasions that I believed there was no reason we couldn't bounce straight back provided the club made a decent managerial appointment. My reasoning was that we already had the basis of a good squad by League One standards and the quality of the opposition at this level is significantly weaker.

I did suggest we'd need to bring in a few battle-hardened, horses-for-courses League One performers to bolster the squad as I expected this division to be a much more physical challenge than it's proved to be. I was wrong about that, but thankfully BBM knew exactly what was required and acted accordingly.

I wonder if PW76 saw BBM's comments about Willock yesterday? If so, I hope he wasn't too upset. BBM said:

"For a player of his calibre, he has to have the outcomes in terms of goals and assists. That means being in a physical condition where he can deliver, not just relying on spectacular goals. He's getting towards where he needs to be physically now and he'll only improve. His time at QPR (in the Championship) was where I saw him at his best – the football they played under Mark Warburton was amazing."

Those kind of comments could apply to several other players in this squad. They really should be in the Championship, not League One. However, they haven't performed to a high enough level in recent seasons to justify being there right now, but under BBM's guidance they are steadily getting there.