Joey Barton

[J R Hartley]

Re: Joey Barton

Because there's fewer black players... what sort of question is that? If you look at the previous generation the percentage of black players is much smaller than it is today, if those players decided not to go into coaching (spoiler, most players regardless of race don't bother with this) then you have a small pool of black coaches to choose from. You are also purposely ignoring Sol's attempt at politics after he retired (perhaps you knew this but seemingly forget to mention it cause it weakens your point). He only started to show an interest in coaching in 2017, 5 years after he retired, no shit he didn't walk into a job when he's so far off the pace.

David James had a great take on this which doesn't boil down to your simplistic "white people get jobs and black people don't". I suggest you read this before you try and derail more threads about this exact topic again

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features...w-bame-coaches

Some very interesting points there. Especially there being very few English managers - of any ethnicity - in the Premier League and Championship for that matter (All 3 promoted clubs last season managed by a foreign manager).

I’m glad it was David James making those very valid, very articulate points.I dare say if it was Neil Warnock making those exact same points he’s be accused by some on here of white privilege and unconscious racism.

[Tuerto]

Re: Joey Barton

Because there's fewer black players... what sort of question is that? If you look at the previous generation the percentage of black players is much smaller than it is today, if those players decided not to go into coaching (spoiler, most players regardless of race don't bother with this) then you have a small pool of black coaches to choose from. You are also purposely ignoring Sol's attempt at politics after he retired (perhaps you knew this but seemingly forget to mention it cause it weakens your point). He only started to show an interest in coaching in 2017, 5 years after he retired, no shit he didn't walk into a job when he's so far off the pace.

David James had a great take on this which doesn't boil down to your simplistic "white people get jobs and black people don't". I suggest you read this before you try and derail more threads about this exact topic again

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features...w-bame-coaches

Black footballers make up to 35% of all footballers in the professional game, that doesn't transmit to management appointments, not even close. Why is that? This isn't a football problem either. Black people are not represented in managerial roles or at boardroom level. You reckon that there's no racism at play?

[Tuerto]

Re: Joey Barton

You trying to make out Sol Campbell to be some kind of Johan Cruyff football visionary that the game is being deprived of because of the colour of his skin is off the wall odd, even by your standards. You can’t wait to derail any managerial thread with your poor old Sol, being treated unfairly because he’s a black man sob story and it’s tedious as ****.

So a few players started at a higher level which you’ve got a bee in your bonnet about. I’ve already given you many examples of white players on his level, who had to start down on a level he thought was beneath him.

Patrick Vieira has just been given the Palace job without any lower league experience but haven’t heard a peep from you on that. Thierry Henry got given the Monaco job because of his name. Chris Powell and Chris Hughton went straight in at Championship level in fact Hughton went in at PL level as a caretaker manager for Spurs and Newcastle. Darren Moore is another who has shown he wanted to be a manager and been given opportunities.

Ledley King is assistant manager at Spurs. No different to John Terry being assistant manager at Aston Villa.

As for other opportunities there’s never been a better time for black ex footballers to get media work. Darren Bent got his own radio show, Alex Scott is presenting football focus and Jermaine Jenas is even presenting the One Show!!

I'm making a comparison between sol and his contemporaries, **** me, it's like pulling teeth, can't you grasp that? Some of them (who got decent managerial jobs) who were top class players as well. Sol Campbell applied for plenty of jobs but had to settle for a club that were on the brink of going out of the league, yet, he had his coaching badges and a top class career behind him, much like gerrard, lampard, Robson etc. None of them started at that level, they were trusted.

Things are changing, especially in media, and that's great. It isn't in football though, as it isn't at managerial level in most industries. When black footballers broke onto the scene, there was a mis trust. Could they handle the cold weather, the physicality of the game, they were only good as skilfull bit part players, they were quick, not to be trusted in positions of influence, etc. The racists were saying those things.

Now that stigma has been banished, the next one is trust in positions of power and decision making. That's my opinion and belief.

[Tuerto]

Re: Joey Barton

Sol Campbell was never world class at any point in his career

You are very wrong.

[Cleve van Leef]

Re: Joey Barton

And I thought I posted about Joey Barton and his suitability to be employed as a Manager

[Joe Gillis]

Re: Joey Barton

You are very wrong.

No I'm not

[Tuerto]

Re: Joey Barton

And I thought I posted about Joey Barton and his suitability to be employed as a Manager

Oh, right. He did a decent enough job at Fleetwood, so the Rovers job was deserved on merit. If he keeps chinning people then i don't really think that he's suitable for a role in management. My point was that a black player with his charge sheet wouldn't get near it, he'd have had dogs abuse in the media, or much more than Barton received. Wouldn't have got a slot on Talksport, or seen as some kind of angry poet due to his poor up bringing and penchant towards philosophical sound bites, and he certainly wouldn't have got a role in one of Morrisseys music videos, that's the biggest given of them all. Sorry to disrupt your thread cleve :thumbup:

[J R Hartley]

Re: Joey Barton

And I thought I posted about Joey Barton and his suitability to be employed as a Manager

As a long standing member of this forum you should no better then to start a managerial thread when Tuerto is online.

[Tuerto]

Re: Joey Barton

No I'm not

Well, that's your opinion, it's not mine and countless others. I don't like the man or his politics, as a footballer, he was incredible.

[Tuerto]

Re: Joey Barton

As a long standing member of this forum you should no better then to start a managerial thread when Tuerto is online.

Correct, and until things change, i'll say the same thing, over and over again. :thumbup:

[Rock_Flock_of_Five]

Re: Joey Barton

I stopped reading Tuerto's post when he said "Sol Campbell was 15 years ahead of the game". :hehe:

[Tuerto]

Re: Joey Barton

I stopped reading Tuerto's post when he said "Sol Campbell was 15 years ahead of the game". :hehe:

As an English central defender, he was way ahead in terms of ability, vision, positioning, passing and understanding when and when not to make a tackle etc. Tremendous player and world class for a period in my opinion.

[J R Hartley]

Re: Joey Barton

I'm making a comparison between sol and his contemporaries, **** me, it's like pulling teeth, can't you grasp that? Some of them (who got decent managerial jobs) who were top class players as well. Sol Campbell applied for plenty of jobs but had to settle for a club that were on the brink of going out of the league, yet, he had his coaching badges and a top class career behind him, much like gerrard, lampard, Robson etc. None of them started at that level, they were trusted.

Things are changing, especially in media, and that's great. It isn't in football though, as it isn't at managerial level in most industries. When black footballers broke onto the scene, there was a mis trust. Could they handle the cold weather, the physicality of the game, they were only good as skilfull bit part players, they were quick, not to be trusted in positions of influence, etc. The racists were saying those things.

Now that stigma has been banished, the next one is trust in positions of power and decision making. That's my opinion and belief.

No, you gave a list of contemporaries that suited your narrative. I gave a list of his white contemporaries that also had to start from the bottom. I also gave a few examples of black players who were afforded the same level of entry and as Gerrard, Lampard.etc

Maybe, just maybe, Campbell didn’t inspire enough to be given a job at a higher level. He doesn’t come across the most personable of characters and his loyalty is also questionable after what he did to Spurs. Bryan Robson and Steven Gerrard both cut their teeth managing younger teams at United and Liverpool when they finished playing. Did Campbell show the same appetite when he retired? They were also very inspirational captains and leaders. As colossal a defender as Campbell was I don’t recall him being a vocal leader on the pitch and the same has been said of him in the dressing room by ex team mates.

[J R Hartley]

Re: Joey Barton

Correct, and until things change, i'll say the same thing, over and over again. :thumbup:

Btec Sludge

[J R Hartley]

Re: Joey Barton

I stopped reading Tuerto's post when he said "Sol Campbell was 15 years ahead of the game". :hehe:

:hehe:

He’s only 4 years older than Rio Ferdinand ffs :hehe: