The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

[logic]

Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

They were categorised as "development" weren't they? A sort of weird halfway house between the academy and the first team

We routinely played u18 eligible kids in u23 games.

[MOZZER2]

Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

We routinely played u18 eligible kids in u23 games.

that filters all the way down the to under 9's playing in a higher age group , under 14's playing in the under 16's etc

reading the last few threads still unsure what the issue is

[City123]

Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

We routinely played u18 eligible kids in u23 games.

We did occasionally, but weren't the games and regular squad considered a separate thing to the "academy" which was the younger age groups, hence "DVP & academy"? It was restructured back into u21s this season

Not that that has anything to do with the awards anyway, didn't Colwill win it last season? He'd already played about 10 senior games going into that season and was a Wales international!

[logic]

Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

that filters all the way down the to under 9's playing in a higher age group , under 14's playing in the under 16's etc

reading the last few threads still unsure what the issue is

The Benjamin apparently isn't "Academy enough" to have received an award.

[Undercoverinwurzelland]

Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

The academy twitter account's bio says it's U9-U21

[MOZZER2]

Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

the rules from the FA regarding youth development rules

https://resources.premierleague.com/premierleague/document/2020/09/23/9af878e5-d485-4683-87d9-4e4c3834d3bf/PL-2020-21-YD-Rules.pdf

[the other bob wilson]

Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

So what were u23s then? No longer Academy kids, but not really senior players so an underclass?

What about u21s playing for he u23s? Would an 18 year old be an academy player or not? Are Crole and Ashford not really Academy players either?

I would be interesting to see analysis if possible because I can't recall seeing 17 yr olds and occasionally 16 yr olds in City sides. Maybe, just maybe at lower levels or in meaningless cup games. That isn't even something particular to us, I cant recall ay Championship side that would be the same. The odd player here and there, maybe.

Again, I refer to to criticism of Benjamin winning the award as being churlish. Like it or not, he's part of the Academy setup and if he breaks into the first team, I'll be cheering him on, not worrying he hasn't been at the club for a decade.

Aaron Ramsey and John Toshack played for us as sixteen year olds with The latter becoming a regular selection at that age and the former at seventeen. Chris Gunter had a run of games in the first team as a seventeen year old, as did Adam Matthews and Darcy Blake made his debut at seventeen I believe. Going back further, Lindon Jones, Peter Sayer, and David Giles all debuted at seventeen, Simon Haworth did I think, Earnie did and James Collins may have been seventeen as well.

Think a lot of the praise Benjamin gets is for him being seen as a leader when you often hear talk about how few of those there are in the modern game. I’m not against him in any way, I just don’t think him getting the award reflects well on the Academy especially when you consider that his leadership qualities are hardly likely to have appeared in the past year while he’s been with us.

I always think of Theo Wharton (another who played in the first team at seventeen I think) and Tommy O’Sullivan as explanations as to why under 23 football was wrong - they were still playing age group football every week at twenty two and twenty three and the idea that they could still have been regarded as Academy players at that age is laughable - I think it’s laughable as well that twenty one year old Rubin Colwill could still be considered as a Academy player at City when he’s been to a Euros and A World Cup with his country.

[logic]

Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

Aaron Ramsey and John Toshack played for us as sixteen year olds with The latter becoming a regular selection at that age and the former at seventeen. Chris Gunter had a run of games in the first team as a seventeen year old, as did Adam Matthews and Darcy Blake made his debut at seventeen I believe. Going back further, Lindon Jones, Peter Sayer, and David Giles all debuted at seventeen, Simon Haworth did I think, Earnie did and James Collins may have been seventeen as well.

Think a lot of the praise Benjamin gets is for him being seen as a leader when you often hear talk about how few of those there are in the modern game. I’m not against him in any way, I just don’t think him getting the award reflects well on the Academy especially when you consider that his leadership qualities are hardly likely to have appeared in the past year while he’s been with us.

I always think of Theo Wharton (another who played in the first team at seventeen I think) and Tommy O’Sullivan as explanations as to why under 23 football was wrong - they were still playing age group football every week at twenty two and twenty three and the idea that they could still have been regarded as Academy players at that age is laughable - I think it’s laughable as well that twenty one year old Rubin Colwill could still be considered as a Academy player at City when he’s been to a Euros and A World Cup with his country.

Ramsey was when? Toshack was when? What level were we in when the people youve named made their debuts?

Talented players will make the breakthrough, but we've seen endless youngsters touted here that have gone on do very little. If you'd argued we've had managers unwilling to back youngsters, I'd tend to agree.

Theo Wharton, like Tom James, were named by Mackay as having "big futures ahead of them". O'Sullivan et al. File firmly in the "Where are they now?" category, can hardly claim the club have missed out.

Like it or not, Benjamin is an Academy player. You ay consider it laughable, c'est la vie.

What's more important is that the club need to have a manager willing to give youngsters runs. I don't care if they came fom another Academy or not, but in McGuinness, Denham, Rubin Colwill, Davies, Etete we've a useful young first team crop. If at least one from Benjamin, King, Ashford Leahy, Crole pan out, then great.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

Ramsey was when? Toshack was when? What level were we in when the people youve named made their debuts?

Talented players will make the breakthrough, but we've seen endless youngsters touted here that have gone on do very little. If you'd argued we've had managers unwilling to back youngsters, I'd tend to agree.

Theo Wharton, like Tom James, were named by Mackay as having "big futures ahead of them". O'Sullivan et al. File firmly in the "Where are they now?" category, can hardly claim the club have missed out.

Like it or not, Benjamin is an Academy player. You ay consider it laughable, c'est la vie.

What's more important is that the club need to have a manager willing to give youngsters runs. I don't care if they came fom another Academy or not, but in McGuinness, Denham, Rubin Colwill, Davies, Etete we've a useful young first team crop. If at least one from Benjamin, King, Ashford Leahy, Crole pan out, then great.

Apart from Earnie, Haworth and Collins, we were in Division 2/Championship when the players I named first played for us.

[logic]

Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

Apart from Earnie, Haworth and Collins, we were in Division 2/Championship when the players I named first played for us.

In a different era.

Look, talented players will make it if there's a manager willing to play them. We know Warnock didn't. We know McCarthy did, we know Morison and Hudson weren't and we also know Lamouchi generally hasn't.

We've a good core of youngsters that we can build around. Colwill behind Davies and Etete could be very interesting. We've some youngsters below the fist team who might make it. Without a manager willing to do so...

[AdrianAlston]

Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

https://www.cardiffcityfc.co.uk/club-staff/academy

u21 manager listed as Academy staff.

Benjamin has played well for the u21s and been on the first team bench. It would be churlish not to recognise his good play this season due to not having been with the club long enough.

I don't want to be pedantic, but Benjamin hasn't been on the 1st team bench. It was the cup game when it was assumed that it was him, but it was actually the U16 keeper with the same surname; who had been selected just to increase the compensation it was assumed that Man City would have to play.

Benjamin snr has had a good season, he's clearly a good defender and leader. But his chances of being a Championship Centre Back, given his height, are very limited. His distribution isn't the best either. Macnamara and Denham are noticeably better in this regard

I'm not sure I see sense in the signings of Benjamin, Antwi, Conte, Kristensen, Leahy, Peake etc. Let's face it none of them are going to be 1st team players. I'm not sure of the cost, but I can't help think that there is something slightly dodgy to do with Agents going on.

[AdrianAlston]

Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

In a different era.

Look, talented players will make it if there's a manager willing to play them. We know Warnock didn't. We know McCarthy did, we know Morison and Hudson weren't and we also know Lamouchi generally hasn't.

We've a good core of youngsters that we can build around. Colwill behind Davies and Etete could be very interesting. We've some youngsters below the fist team who might make it. Without a manager willing to do so...

In fairness to Lamouchi, at Forest he made Worrall into a 1st team ever present, Yates and Mighten were match day squad regulars and he gave Johnson his 1st team debut. It will be interesting to see if he does the same with Davies, Colwill, King and Denham from the start of the season when there isn't the same level of pressure/desperation.

[Bluebirdman Of Alcathays]

Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

I'm not sure I see sense in the signings of Benjamin, Antwi, Conte, Kristensen, Leahy, Peake etc. Let's face it none of them are going to be 1st team players. I'm not sure of the cost, but I can't help think that there is something slightly dodgy to do with Agents going on.

Darren Purse said signing Conte and Antwi, for instance, was supposed to bring some "experience" to the team, if that makes any sense. A little while ago a couple of teams (I think one of them was Brighton) actually brought in some proper experience - ie. a 30 something old pro winding down his career - to direct the younger players while playing for their U23s. Not sure if it caught on or was seen as beneficial in the end. It should be noted that Denham was signed after his release from Man U so it's not a complete waste of time as a policy but there's often a feeling of making up the numbers with some of these players.

[AdrianAlston]

Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

https://twitter.com/fabrizioromano/status/1652305477118590979

This could be the reason that Man City's interest in Lewys Benjamin has cooled

[AdrianAlston]

Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

Darren Purse said signing Conte and Antwi, for instance, was supposed to bring some "experience" to the team, if that makes any sense. A little while ago a couple of teams (I think one of them was Brighton) actually brought in some proper experience - ie. a 30 something old pro winding down his career - to direct the younger players while playing for their U23s. Not sure if it caught on or was seen as beneficial in the end. It should be noted that Denham was signed after his release from Man U so it's not a complete waste of time as a policy but there's often a feeling of making up the numbers with some of these players.

Totally agree. We might have well played Sang and Whyte in the U21's all season. That would have provided the experience required.