Quinton de Kock.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Quinton de Kock.

Great post Bob. He's expanded today. It's just a shame it had to get to this point in the first place as there are still a lot of issues regarding equality in SA cricket. I still think it was a poor decision and not what SA needed.

You may have seen this piece too yesterday https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...hieves-nothing and it highlights why, when only 8.9% of SAs are white, and even less in cricket, three decades on from the Apartheid regime, there're still a lot of problems to sort out. I do think we should be careful of equating taking the knee for CSA as anything like doing so for other sportspeople. It's a way more complicated issue.

Thanks, he had to clarify his decision and, although there are one or two things in his statement which I could quibble about, this will now, hopefully, be an end to the matter - just looking at it from a cricket viewpoint, any tournament to decide the best team in the world has to have players as good as DeKock in it.

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Quinton de Kock.

But he hasn’t been forced to do anything. He’s made his choice and, as his captain explains, there are consequences to that decision. Nobody is forcing you to produce your COVID pass to get in down the City but if you don’t the consequences are that you don’t get in, it’s your choice as not taking the knee is de Kock’s.

Two wildly different things though, one is a reasonable public safety measure and the other is only a gesture, regardless of whether you see it positively, negatively or couldn't care either way.

I think we just need to be a little bit careful about how we approach these types of issues, even if an action seemingly has no negative consequences (like taking the knee).

Parallels could easily be drawn between the reactions to kapernick kneeling for the US anthem and the reactions to de kock choosing not to take a knee.

Its completely lost its meaning as a protest or demonstration of principle and become a bit like clapping the NHS.

[Hilts]

Re: Quinton de Kock.

Two wildly different things though, one is a reasonable public safety measure and the other is only a gesture, regardless of whether you see it positively, negatively or couldn't care either way.

I think we just need to be a little bit careful about how we approach these types of issues, even if an action seemingly has no negative consequences (like taking the knee).

Parallels could easily be drawn between the reactions to kapernick kneeling for the US anthem and the reactions to de kock choosing not to take a knee.

Its completely lost its meaning as a protest or demonstration of principle and become a bit like clapping the NHS.

I think the likes of Michael Holding would strongly disagree with you.

[Hilts]

Re: Quinton de Kock.

Havent read this but will do.

https://www.worldofbooks.com/en-gb/books/michael-holding/why-we-kneel-how-we-rise/9781398503236?gclid=Cj0KCQjwlOmLBhCHARIsAGiJg7nLU3rl8v77YZQncByWVnv3QyM346L35dwoMCRcJbw96L0lOA0TpU0aAtn4EALw_wcB

[poc]

Re: Quinton de Kock.

He's replied very eloquently on this today https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...g-to-take-knee

:thumbup:

[Citizen's Nephew]

Re: Quinton de Kock.

Havent read this but will do.

https://www.worldofbooks.com/en-gb/b...0aAtn4EALw_wcB

Yes, it's currently top of my reading list for November. You've probably seen this interview with him on Sky but it's worth posting for anyone who hasn't

There's also an article Michael Holding Brilliantly Explains The Importance Of Sportspeople Taking A Knee which is worth posting on this thread too.

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Quinton de Kock.

I think the likes of Michael Holding would strongly disagree with you.

So what?

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Quinton de Kock.

I think the likes of Michael Holding would strongly disagree with you.

And when you say 'the likes of' you mean other black people right? :hehe:

[splott parker]

Re: Quinton de Kock.

Two wildly different things though, one is a reasonable public safety measure and the other is only a gesture, regardless of whether you see it positively, negatively or couldn't care either way.

I think we just need to be a little bit careful about how we approach these types of issues, even if an action seemingly has no negative consequences (like taking the knee).

Parallels could easily be drawn between the reactions to kapernick kneeling for the US anthem and the reactions to de kock choosing not to take a knee.

Its completely lost its meaning as a protest or demonstration of principle and become a bit like clapping the NHS.

Same outcome though, you don’t get in the ground, he doesn’t get in the squad.

[life on mars]

Re: Quinton de Kock.

But he hasn’t been forced to do anything. He’s made his choice and, as his captain explains, there are consequences to that decision. Nobody is forcing you to produce your COVID pass to get in down the City but if you don’t the consequences are that you don’t get in, it’s your choice as not taking the knee is de Kock’s.

He was told , a directive was issued, they told him on the way to ground the team as one were taking the knee ,in my world that's no choice ,so your forced .

[Citizen's Nephew]

Re: Quinton de Kock.

He was told , a directive was issued, they told him on the way to ground the team as one were taking the knee ,in my world that's no choice ,so your forced .

Oh give over. In my world that's part of being a team 'as one'. He's even apologised. Move on.

[splott parker]

Re: Quinton de Kock.

He was told , a directive was issued, they told him on the way to ground the team as one were taking the knee ,in my world that's no choice ,so your forced .

If that’s true, he still wasn’t forced. If you’re forced to do something, I take it as you actually do it under duress, he didn’t, he made his choice not to. He chose not to, what part of ‘having no choice’ do you not understand?

[life on mars]

Re: Quinton de Kock.

""No cricketer should be ( forced ) to take a knee - Quinton de Kock had the right to freedom of choice""

"" The*Quinton de Kock controversy*comes down to one fundamental point: no sportsperson should be told what to do when it comes to expressing their personal views.*""

""Sports boards have the right to demand their players perform a certain way, and prepare properly, but when it comes to expressing political opinions, or views around moral issues, that has to be left to the individual.*""

""Taking the knee only has strength if the person doing it believes in it fully - otherwise it is a hollow symbol. Quinton's problem now is that he has committed to taking the knee despite everyone knowing that he doesn't really believe in it.*""

Comment today by Michael Vaughan

Of course he's being forced 🙄

[splott parker]

Re: Quinton de Kock.

""No cricketer should be ( forced ) to take a knee - Quinton de Kock had the right to freedom of choice""

"" The*Quinton de Kock controversy*comes down to one fundamental point: no sportsperson should be told what to do when it comes to expressing their personal views.*""

""Sports boards have the right to demand their players perform a certain way, and prepare properly, but when it comes to expressing political opinions, or views around moral issues, that has to be left to the individual.*""

""Taking the knee only has strength if the person doing it believes in it fully - otherwise it is a hollow symbol. Quinton's problem now is that he has committed to taking the knee despite everyone knowing that he doesn't really believe in it.*""

Comment today by Michael Vaughan

Of course he's being forced ��

He’s not.

[Jimmy the Jock]

Re: Quinton de Kock.

He’s not.

Qf course he was, kneel or dont play .That is forced.