Fine for going to work?

[Tuerto]

Re: Fine for going to work?

Eric, there's nothing wrong with 'requesting' people work from home, but to fine them for not doing so is draconian, surely?

Absolutely. Fining your average Joe for turning up at work is a disgrace and an act of bullying. What the Welsh government should be doing is to make sure that employers are doing everything they can to make the workplace safe. I understand that there are other factors involved, like using public transport etc, but that burden should not be put on workers.

[MOZZER2]

Re: Fine for going to work?

here we go with new restrictions from boxing day too

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/covid-boxing-day-restrictions-rules-22543210#source=push

[Tuerto]

Re: Fine for going to work?

Sounds a bit like prison. Actually, a lot like prison. Do you get your food via Deliveroo and gen. shopping via Amazon ?

You've obviously never been to prison.

[jon1959]

Re: Fine for going to work?

Welsh Government have got this one wrong.

[A Quiet Monkfish]

Re: Fine for going to work?

You've obviously never been to prison.

Nah! Ain't done no Powwidge.

[JamesWales]

Re: Fine for going to work?

This is ironic considering the real Orwellian nightmare involved Winston Smith going to work in a 'cubicle' office environment.

We won't have the resources to travel huge distances let alone the utilities to heat/water/light huge office complexes. Manufacturing is different though. Younger people today aren't going to want to or be able to work in corporate environments. The simple truth is we won't have the resources to afford the luxury of travel to a location to do exactly the same thing as we could do from home. Homes will be different anyway.

It is ironic in that sense, I agree, although far more to Orwell than 1984 and he wrote a lot about the importance of society and social interaction on human levels.

Also, the boss being able to contact you via a screen in your own home is also a theme touched upon in 1984.

It certainly isnt for me, and I think a society that normalised this would be a very bad society, and at the very least would only benefit those with large enough or comfortable enough home lives.

[Tuerto]

Re: Fine for going to work?

It is ironic in that sense, I agree, although far more to Orwell than 1984 and he wrote a lot about the importance of society and social interaction on human levels.

Also, the boss being able to contact you via a screen in your own home is also a theme touched upon in 1984.

It certainly isnt for me, and I think a society that normalised this would be a very bad society, and at the very least would only benefit those with large enough or comfortable enough home lives.

I understand where you are coming from and CN makes some really good points that cover a wider issue, so I'd say that you're both right! My schedulers have phoned me today about jobs booked in while having to look after young kids, that ain't easy, although I suppose it reduces costs and disruption with child care. It's a difficult subject and people's needs really need to be considered.

[JamesWales]

Re: Fine for going to work?

I understand where you are coming from and CN makes some really good points that cover a wider issue, so I'd say that you're both right! My schedulers have phoned me today about jobs booked in while having to look after young kids, that ain't easy, although I suppose it reduces costs and disruption with child care. It's a difficult subject and people's needs really need to be considered.

Without doubt, there is no one size fits all and the needs of different staff need to be taken into consideration. That said, I do quite strongly feel that all staff should be in the office at least once a fortnight if for no other reason than for their own wellbeing and a duty of care from the employer or else who knows what nightmare scenarios could be allowed to flourish - I really feel for some women with controlling husbands on this. I'm always reminded of a woman in work who would cry from time to time due to her homelife and would be comforted by people in the office. Well, no one see's you cry at home.

More generally, I think it's about what could be lost; social interaction, brainstorming, sharing ideas, holistic learning, cross-silo working, learning from eachother etc.

I have come to really dislike MS teams and I dont have a bad face, but I absolutely hate it. I hate the idea of my face and voice in other peoples homes. I also find that people simply do not listen or follow the meetings unlike in face-to-face settings. Speaking for where i work, things are taking much much longer. Stuff that may be sorted in a day may take two weeks. Other things may be more efficient, but it's hard to think of any examples.

The commute can be a pain, although personally I like the seperation of home from work and I enjoy reading on the train.

We also need to think more seriously about the impacts. Less commuting means less public transport, that will impact the poorest and those who don't work in sectors where people can WFH. Also, what of those in shared houses, or with difficult homelives or in one bed flats. Coming in the office less may be great for some, but what if we lose the office alltogether? Again, I know someone who worked at Cardiff University and was told their office is now gone. She grew to despise her work that she previously loved. Totally got her down. There will be other examples, but they point to a balanced approach

Do we really want to normalise this? Do we really think this is what is best for people at the beginning of their careers or even as they are progressing throughout it?

I'm not rallying against choice and I'd support peoples right to WFH, but I do think it can be hugely damaging to individuals, business and society when its prolonged as we have seen.

And as for the specific WG act of threatening fines...I think even the biggest WG fan would accept that is a step too far

[Maurice Swan]

Re: Fine for going to work?

Good post James.
When I was working in the 90's (before retirement) I often used to commute two hours each way from between Newark/Lincoln to London. I was able to work from home if I wished and 2-3 days a week would go into the office or visit clients. I had lots of staff under my control - Computer programmers. I used to tell them I couldn't care less if they went to the seaside or cut the grass during the week if at home - as long as they delivered on time!! Time shifting suited me and I would do the same by and large, often working well into the evening.

[life on mars]

Re: Fine for going to work?

I do feel very sorry for those who earn not very much , maybe this (so called socialist decision ) should be backed it up with extra statutory sick pay rather than putting pressure on the lowly paid .

It nice for those in middle management or public sector management roles to clap, they never went through Furlough and its 80% payments scheme .

[Tuerto]

Re: Fine for going to work?

I do feel very sorry for those who earn not very much , maybe this (so called socialist decision ) should be backed it up with extra statutory sick pay rather than putting pressure on the lowly paid .

It nice for those in middle management or public sector management roles to clap, they never went through Furlough and its 80% payments scheme .

Jesus, you're hard work, aren't you? All of a sudden you're concerned about people on low income, poor working conditions, a lack of proper sick pay, sounds like those people could be on Zero hour contracts, stuck in the gig economy etc. You do realise how this has come about, don't you? Forget party politics as well, because both sides of the coin have contributed towards the things that you seem so concerned about, yet i can't recall you ever mentioning it.

[Dorcus]

Re: Fine for going to work?

Good post James.
When I was working in the 90's (before retirement) I often used to commute two hours each way from between Newark/Lincoln to London. I was able to work from home if I wished and 2-3 days a week would go into the office or visit clients. I had lots of staff under my control - Computer programmers. I used to tell them I couldn't care less if they went to the seaside or cut the grass during the week if at home - as long as they delivered on time!! Time shifting suited me and I would do the same by and large, often working well into the evening.

Very good post Maurice.

I really wish more and more employers and managers would embrace your very enlightened practice; I am 100% sure it would increase productivity and staff relations significantly.

[MacAdder]

Re: Fine for going to work?

Without doubt, there is no one size fits all and the needs of different staff need to be taken into consideration. That said, I do quite strongly feel that all staff should be in the office at least once a fortnight if for no other reason than for their own wellbeing and a duty of care from the employer or else who knows what nightmare scenarios could be allowed to flourish - I really feel for some women with controlling husbands on this. I'm always reminded of a woman in work who would cry from time to time due to her homelife and would be comforted by people in the office. Well, no one see's you cry at home.

More generally, I think it's about what could be lost; social interaction, brainstorming, sharing ideas, holistic learning, cross-silo working, learning from eachother etc.

I have come to really dislike MS teams and I dont have a bad face, but I absolutely hate it. I hate the idea of my face and voice in other peoples homes. I also find that people simply do not listen or follow the meetings unlike in face-to-face settings. Speaking for where i work, things are taking much much longer. Stuff that may be sorted in a day may take two weeks. Other things may be more efficient, but it's hard to think of any examples.

The commute can be a pain, although personally I like the seperation of home from work and I enjoy reading on the train.

We also need to think more seriously about the impacts. Less commuting means less public transport, that will impact the poorest and those who don't work in sectors where people can WFH. Also, what of those in shared houses, or with difficult homelives or in one bed flats. Coming in the office less may be great for some, but what if we lose the office alltogether? Again, I know someone who worked at Cardiff University and was told their office is now gone. She grew to despise her work that she previously loved. Totally got her down. There will be other examples, but they point to a balanced approach

Do we really want to normalise this? Do we really think this is what is best for people at the beginning of their careers or even as they are progressing throughout it?

I'm not rallying against choice and I'd support peoples right to WFH, but I do think it can be hugely damaging to individuals, business and society when its prolonged as we have seen.

And as for the specific WG act of threatening fines...I think even the biggest WG fan would accept that is a step too far

Good post.
I think you've captured the most valid points and hit on a number of other related ones.

[delmbox]

Re: Fine for going to work?

More generally, I think it's about what could be lost; social interaction, brainstorming, sharing ideas, holistic learning, cross-silo working, learning from eachother etc.

Don't forget blue sky thinking, touching base and thinking outside the box

[Dorcus]

Re: Fine for going to work?

Don't forget blue sky thinking, touching base and thinking outside the box

Ha ha brilliant 👍