Cancel culture

[JamesWales]

Re: Cancel culture

What do you mean already a preconceived right or wrong? How does this suggest it?

Anyway there are plenty of jokes that “punch down” they’re just a lot harder to execute without looking like a smug twat so punching up is usually used a lot more as it’s often more entertaining.

It’s much easier to get a laugh about the Queen or the President than someone who’s living on the breadline.

I think as with so many things in the last few years, the fault line has been brexit, and there's been so many jokes, from generally wealthier remain voters (comedians, media types etc) aimed at generally poorer brexit voters (the poor overwhelmingly voted leave) labelling them racist, stupid, gullible etc without any attempt to understand things. That has been the greatest mass example of 'punching down' and snobbery I've witnessed in my lifetime. I think it's the double standards really.

This addresses some of it - references Ian Dunt, althouth for me the worse example, the very epitome of smug is James O Brien.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/14/leave-voters-london-voted-remain-eu

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1493530/Lib-Dem-brexit-voters-racist-stupid

Anywaaaay. I very much advocate a position where we can all make fun of but also respect and try and understand all positions and sharing and experiencing different cultures and jokes is key to that.

[JamesWales]

Re: Cancel culture

And trumping that..

Stewart Lee, whom I used to really like, and still do like his style. Can you match this smug ignorance?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMvwNkPgwgg

This probably helped his career, yet others are chastised for far worse, and I think that's what grates really, the cutural norms are reflective of a broadly elitist position.

[Pearcey3]

Re: Cancel culture

I think as with so many things in the last few years, the fault line has been brexit, and there's been so many jokes, from generally wealthier remain voters (comedians, media types etc) aimed at generally poorer brexit voters (the poor overwhelmingly voted leave) labelling them racist, stupid, gullible etc without any attempt to understand things. That has been the greatest mass example of 'punching down' and snobbery I've witnessed in my lifetime. I think it's the double standards really.

This addresses some of it - references Ian Dunt, althouth for me the worse example, the very epitome of smug is James O Brien.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/14/leave-voters-london-voted-remain-eu

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1493530/Lib-Dem-brexit-voters-racist-stupid

Anywaaaay. I very much advocate a position where we can all make fun of but also respect and try and understand all positions and sharing and experiencing different cultures and jokes is key to that.

Seriously? Just how smug were arch leavers like Rees-Mogg, Gove, Johnson, Tim Martin etc? It cuts both ways.

[JamesWales]

Re: Cancel culture

Seriously? Just how smug were arch leavers like Rees-Mogg, Gove, Johnson, Tim Martin etc? It cuts both ways.

I absolutely knew that would be the response! It's a fact, most people on lower socio economic status or earnings voted leave. Yet jokes like this were fine and lapped up and did no damage to his career it seems. No calls to be cancelled...and that's right! That's how it should be!

Imagine the furore if the joke was aimed at some of the groups who typically try to cause the cancelling / ending of careers?

I only mention this as an example of punching down which was deemed fine in this case.

[caerkid]

Re: Cancel culture

It does go on and people are definitely fearful of voicing their opinions in front of many 'liberals' in much the same way that others are in front of some conservatives, especially in the past. I have a friend at BBC radio Wales who strongly stated this was the case there. You just have to toe the line to the prevailing elite.

Is this the same prevailing elite who have been in government for the last decade and own the vast majority of the press or are we talking about the imaginary one again ?

This reads an awful lot like 'if I said my offensive thoughts out loud someone may call me out on it'. There was a time when keeping your horrible little thoughts to yourself in wider company was just called being polite. For all the talk of 'snowflakes' and 'karens' the poor oppressed rightwing are rather prone to screaming they've been 'cancelled' in every paper and TV show available if someone on twitter dares points out they've said something offensive.

Good work Croesy for talking sense in this thread!

[WJ99mobile]

Re: Cancel culture

Your examples of Cancel culture were Jim Davidson, chubby brown and Louis ck.

What else am I asking Louis ck about?

Have you been to university? It’s about 0.01% of the whole student base involved in these groups protesting. ****ing busy bodies who go into student politics then real politics. People need some perspective, it’s “political correctness gone mad” all over again ffs.

People get "canceled" when they are no longer economically viable.

Louis CK was one of the biggest if not the biggest at the time. He was still economically viable. Still is and still sells out shows. He still has been blacklisted from most of most of the services like Netflix.

Economically viable, but cancelled.

That was in direct response to your point - whenever a counter narrative is shown you go onto a different topic than dealing with the reply.

House of cards. Cancelled off TV. If Chapelle wasn't so big they would have never have shown that special.

I'm not saying it shouldn't be cancelled or it's wrong to do what they're doing but you can't deny it isn't real.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Cancel culture

As far as I am concerned cancel culture , snowflakes , woke this , woke that , all lives matter is the language of people represented by Katy Hopkins

Complete Kents basically

I mean if someone isn't offended by different cultures , sexualities etc then why whinge and moan about it ?

I am with Stewart Lee

In the past right wing comedians were represented by Jim Davidson

Now they have degrees and worked in the city

Still Kents though

[Elwood Blues]

Re: Cancel culture

I see that depressingly this seems to have turned into a Right v Left issue again.

Forgetting that majority which lie in the centre.

Cancel culture is a far more complex issue than just left v right.

Or just saying " well this sort of thing has always happened look at Mary Whitehouse or the BBC banning records" without recognising the game changer which is the internet.

Especially bloody twitter. Which is an excellent idea in theory , but has turned into a complete can of worms.

[Pearcey3]

Re: Cancel culture

Is this the same prevailing elite who have been in government for the last decade and own the vast majority of the press or are we talking about the imaginary one again ?

This reads an awful lot like 'if I said my offensive thoughts out loud someone may call me out on it'. There was a time when keeping your horrible little thoughts to yourself in wider company was just called being polite. For all the talk of 'snowflakes' and 'karens' the poor oppressed rightwing are rather prone to screaming they've been 'cancelled' in every paper and TV show available if someone on twitter dares points out they've said something offensive.

Good work Croesy for talking sense in this thread!

Spot on.

[Croesy Blue]

Re: Cancel culture

Louis CK was one of the biggest if not the biggest at the time. He was still economically viable. Still is and still sells out shows. He still has been blacklisted from most of most of the services like Netflix.

Economically viable, but cancelled.

That was in direct response to your point - whenever a counter narrative is shown you go onto a different topic than dealing with the reply.

House of cards. Cancelled off TV. If Chapelle wasn't so big they would have never have shown that special.

I'm not saying it shouldn't be cancelled or it's wrong to do what they're doing but you can't deny it isn't real.

That’s just people being sacked for being sexual deviants ffs, that’s always happened it isn’t a new phenomenon.

Surely these people deserved to lose their jobs?

I don’t understand what your point is even, 2 people rightly sacked isn’t the best example is it?

[Croesy Blue]

Re: Cancel culture

And trumping that..

Stewart Lee, whom I used to really like, and still do like his style. Can you match this smug ignorance?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMvwNkPgwgg

This probably helped his career, yet others are chastised for far worse, and I think that's what grates really, the cutural norms are reflective of a broadly elitist position.

You don’t like it because it’s a good joke at your expense. You’re more than allowed to boycott him and “cancel” him if it hurts your feelings.

What is the opposite of this joke that’s getting people cancelled then? Who has been chastised for far worse? Being chastised isn’t being cancelled is it?

I’m going to see Stewart Lee next month, cannot wait 👌

[WJ99mobile]

Re: Cancel culture

Your examples of Cancel culture were Jim Davidson, chubby brown and Louis ck.

What else am I asking Louis ck about?

Have you been to university? It’s about 0.01% of the whole student base involved in these groups protesting. ****ing busy bodies who go into student politics then real politics. People need some perspective, it’s “political correctness gone mad” all over again ffs.

Is this the same prevailing elite who have been in government for the last decade and own the vast majority of the press or are we talking about the imaginary one again ?

This reads an awful lot like 'if I said my offensive thoughts out loud someone may call me out on it'. There was a time when keeping your horrible little thoughts to yourself in wider company was just called being polite. For all the talk of 'snowflakes' and 'karens' the poor oppressed rightwing are rather prone to screaming they've been 'cancelled' in every paper and TV show available if someone on twitter dares points out they've said something offensive.

Good work Croesy for talking sense in this thread!

Unless it impacts you.

This all stemmed from a trans-gender debate that women didn't feel safe in certain situations with someone that biologically was born a man, or however you interpret it. That's a feeling I can't comprehend so I can't say if it's fair.

I think the conversation is allowed to be had without being called out straight away.

But agree - In the main, just keep your thoughts to yourself

[JamesWales]

Re: Cancel culture

I see that depressingly this seems to have turned into a Right v Left issue again.

Forgetting that majority which lie in the centre.

Cancel culture is a far more complex issue than just left v right.

Or just saying " well this sort of thing has always happened look at Mary Whitehouse or the BBC banning records" without recognising the game changer which is the internet.

Especially bloody twitter. Which is an excellent idea in theory , but has turned into a complete can of worms.

I agree on all counts there.

[Croesy Blue]

Re: Cancel culture

In response to WJ

No one is saying you can’t have the debate though the problem is the debate, to me at least, stinks of the debate about gay people in the 90s and focusses on rape and peadophilia which isn’t actually happening.

In reality people share bathrooms and changing rooms no problem but again it’s blown out of proportion in the press and celebrities on Twitter with nothing better to do get caught in a rabbit hole they can’t get out of without making themselves look like twats.

[JamesWales]

Re: Cancel culture

You don’t like it because it’s a good joke at your expense. You’re more than allowed to boycott him and “cancel” him if it hurts your feelings.

What is the opposite of this joke that’s getting people cancelled then? Who has been chastised for far worse? Being chastised isn’t being cancelled is it?

I’m going to see Stewart Lee next month, cannot wait ��

Mate, that seriously isn't a good joke. He's a funny man, but that is the epitome of 'punching down'. So you clearly dont have an issue with jokes that punch down despite what you said. As usual, the principle here is political. If its the right kind of punching down or offence then it's fine; basically based on your beliefs.

The last thing I would do is call for him to be cancelled. Thats the second point I'm making. He's said something really pretty offensive (and definitely quite snobby) and thats fine. I think he's a knob for it but I defend his right to do it. Others don't, they try to get them taken off bills etc.

That's the root of what we are talking about here. The inconsistency. If those that preach tolerance could show a bit more of it, then that would be a great thing.