Izaak Davies

[Citizen's Nephew]

Re: Izaak Davies

Of course, all of this is as nothing compared to what Isaak Davies experienced after the Bournemouth match - the more I think about it, the worse what Morison did gets and, having been quite in favour of him getting the job on a longer basis based on his work over the past three months, I now find myself starting to believe we should look elsewhere.

That's how I feel too. As I mentioned to Rjk, I think fear can be stifling and no matter what we think, those kinds of comments will pop into our heads when we really don't need them and eat away at the subconscious level. Just to reiterate, it's the public critique I'm against, constructive feedback in context is my preferred approach. It seems we live in an age now where washing dirty linen in public is the norm, people pose with it, take selfies with it and post it on social media.

[SunderlandBluebird]

Re: Izaak Davies

A lot of Morrison's comments and press conferences have been a bit strange since he took over.

The Davies ones after Bournemouth were really poor, shame he doesn't have the it in him to call out some of the senior pros who are constantly under performing - he went for an easy target.

[Rjk]

Re: Izaak Davies

A lot of Morrison's comments and press conferences have been a bit strange since he took over.

The Davies ones after Bournemouth were really poor, shame he doesn't have the it in him to call out some of the senior pros who are constantly under performing - he went for an easy target.

yes it's a side of the job he needs to improve on and quickly

[StraightOuttaCanton]

Re: Izaak Davies

It’s often said these days that the most important part of a football manager’s job is “man management” - knowing which players benefit from the carrot treatment and which ones need the stick. I’d say it’s a truism that current thinking is that the majority of younger players benefit more from the carrot than the stick, but, of course, there will be some younger players for which that is not true.

On the subject of Isaak Davies, I can remember Steve Morison saying after an under 23 match where he’d scored twice that he should have had a hat trick. This surprised me a little at the time, but I took it to be an attempt to keep a teenage player’s feet on the ground after he had done well in a game. Why it surprised me is that it struck me more as the sort of thing you’d say to someone in a one to one situation and that’s the thing that I don’t think has been concentrated on enough here - what happened was not just stick, it was a stick wielded in public for tens (possibly hundreds) of thousands of Cardiff fans to hear.

As I mentioned a few days ago, I can only think of Dave Jones’ public criticism of Adam Matthews to compare to it, but this was worse because Davies was a sub who was subbed, something which, more often than not, is humiliating for the player concerned.

In my job as a Trade Mark Examiner, there would be weekly meetings where about twenty members of staff would discuss accepted Trade Mark cases about to be published in a journal. Most of the cases discussed were judgement calls where sometimes senior officers decided someone like me had maybe gone the wrong side of the line in allowing it. On very rare occasions, someone would make a howler of a decision which was completely wrong, but, even then, there was no talk of the type you heard from Morison about Davies. Thankfully, I never made such a mistake, but it was still an uncomfortable experience to be told that I probably shouldn’t have allowed a particular mark to go ahead - especially when I happened to be attending the meeting where it was discussed.

Of course, all of this is as nothing compared to what Isaak Davies experienced after the Bournemouth match - the more I think about it, the worse what Morison did gets and, having been quite in favour of him getting the job on a longer basis based on his work over the past three months, I now find myself starting to believe we should look elsewhere.

On Sunday, I thought Isaak was one of a few City players who made wrong decisions when there were half chances to get a winning goal, but, honestly, is it any wonder after what happened to him in the previous game? Can anyone on here say with hand on heart that they would have benefited from being hung out to dry in public like Isaak was? Speaking for myself, it would have set me back an awful lot if I was trying to make it in the game and my manager had done what Morison did.

Fundamentally/Philosophically I agree with a lot of what you say but am playing a bit of Devil’s Advocate with this reply.
For a long time you’ve been calling for us to go to our youth, but now that we have you have quickly decided that the young manager in his very first senior role, that has given the youth more first team game time than anyone before him, is no longer appropriate for the job because he called a young player out publicly?
Is it possible that in managerial terms he is in a similar position to the youth in that he might still be learning what works and what doesn’t. For example how often in the past has he had to deal with media interviews that will go to tens or hundreds of thousands of people (don’t think it can be easy doing things over video call either).
The young players aren’t ripping up trees at the moment but the majority of us are calling for them to be given time, so perhaps he deserves something similar?
He’ll make mistakes and he’s fighting to keep a job he has been working towards since he finished playing. Good leaders don’t come off the shelf and they learn as they grow. Good leaders of good leaders make allowances for errors as part of that growth.

[Dorcus]

Re: Izaak Davies

Fundamentally/Philosophically I agree with a lot of what you say but am playing a bit of Devil’s Advocate with this reply.
For a long time you’ve been calling for us to go to our youth, but now that we have you have quickly decided that the young manager in his very first senior role, that has given the youth more first team game time than anyone before him, is no longer appropriate for the job because he called a young player out publicly?
Is it possible that in managerial terms he is in a similar position to the youth in that he might still be learning what works and what doesn’t. For example how often in the past has he had to deal with media interviews that will go to tens or hundreds of thousands of people (don’t think it can be easy doing things over video call either).
The young players aren’t ripping up trees at the moment but the majority of us are calling for them to be given time, so perhaps he deserves something similar?
He’ll make mistakes and he’s fighting to keep a job he has been working towards since he finished playing. Good leaders don’t come off the shelf and they learn as they grow. Good leaders of good leaders make allowances for errors as part of that growth.

You make a good point in terms of Morison's learning curve but for me humility is a fundamental attribute.

Apart from being so very disappointed in him for his public attack on Izaac Davies I'm also getting increasingly disappointed in his tactical decisions. I too was a big supporter of him when he was given the job as manager.

For me, his reluctance to criticize senior pros at the expense of the youngsters is problematic and very telling. If anyone deserved any criticism from him at the Bournemouth match it was Bacuna but he failed to react against him.

I get the impression he's a bit fragile when it comes to anyone pointing the finger at him and I think he used Davies as a whipping boy. Rather than admitting he put out the wrong team and made a mistake in picking Bacuna in the first place.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Izaak Davies

Fundamentally/Philosophically I agree with a lot of what you say but am playing a bit of Devil’s Advocate with this reply.
For a long time you’ve been calling for us to go to our youth, but now that we have you have quickly decided that the young manager in his very first senior role, that has given the youth more first team game time than anyone before him, is no longer appropriate for the job because he called a young player out publicly?
Is it possible that in managerial terms he is in a similar position to the youth in that he might still be learning what works and what doesn’t. For example how often in the past has he had to deal with media interviews that will go to tens or hundreds of thousands of people (don’t think it can be easy doing things over video call either).
The young players aren’t ripping up trees at the moment but the majority of us are calling for them to be given time, so perhaps he deserves something similar?
He’ll make mistakes and he’s fighting to keep a job he has been working towards since he finished playing. Good leaders don’t come off the shelf and they learn as they grow. Good leaders of good leaders make allowances for errors as part of that growth.

Morison’s public pronouncements have been odd at times with his “rant” about stats being a case in point, so I can agree to a degree, but he’s been in the game long enough to have learned that it is very rare for a manager to be as critical about any of their players as he was with a twenty year old who has about ten career first team appearances to his name. I’d be far more sympathetic if Morison had kept what he said in the dressing room - I daresay there’s not a pro playing the game who hasn’t been read the riot act by their manager after a game, but there aren’t many who’ve had a public dressing down like Isaak Davies has now. I just think our manager seriously misjudged the situation in a way that you wouldn’t expect from someone who has been in the game for not far short of twenty years.

[jon1959]

Re: Izaak Davies

You make a good point in terms of Morison's learning curve but for me humility is a fundamental attribute.

Apart from being so very disappointed in him for his public attack on Izaac Davies I'm also getting increasingly disappointed in his tactical decisions. I too was a big supporter of him when he was given the job as manager.

For me, his reluctance to criticize senior pros at the expense of the youngsters is problematic and very telling. If anyone deserved any criticism from him at the Bournemouth match it was Bacuna but he failed to react against him.

I get the impression he's a bit fragile when it comes to anyone pointing the finger at him and I think he used Davies as a whipping boy. Rather than admitting he put out the wrong team and made a mistake in picking Bacuna in the first place.

His comments about Davies were more striking ('more a hindrance than a help') but he did say that Bacuna 'had let his team mates down'.

He shouldn't have said what he did about Izaak Davies in public, but I like the fact that Morison doesn't usually slip into bland management-speak.

For me, so far, there have been a lot more positives than negatives.

[J R Hartley]

Re: Izaak Davies

Morison’s public pronouncements have been odd at times with his “rant” about stats being a case in point, so I can agree to a degree, but he’s been in the game long enough to have learned that it is very rare for a manager to be as critical about any of their players as he was with a twenty year old who has about ten career first team appearances to his name. I’d be far more sympathetic if Morison had kept what he said in the dressing room - I daresay there’s not a pro playing the game who hasn’t been read the riot act by their manager after a game, but there aren’t many who’ve had a public dressing down like Isaak Davies has now. I just think our manager seriously misjudged the situation in a way that you wouldn’t expect from someone who has been in the game for not far short of twenty years.

He’s also been a club captain and an international. I imagine he has been interviewed by the media many times. Maybe he’s still cutting his teeth as far as managerial interviews go, but he knows the score and has been around the game long enough to know you don’t go after a rookie the way he went after Davies.

[delmbox]

Re: Izaak Davies

Davies was at Cardiff many years before Steve Morison and hopefully many years after. If he does turn around to do well for Cardiff it will be because he’s been with the club since he’s 7 years old and working towards being a pro footballer most of his young life and not because of some ridiculous interview that some prick who can’t take any criticism gave to throw someone else under the bus.

Hear hear, I lost a lot of respect for Morison after that, pathetic way to treat a 20 year old who's making a step up

[az city]

Re: Izaak Davies

A lot of good points made here by pretty much everyone. A few things occurred to me.

Maybe Morison is a bit more wary of critiquing the older pros because he isn't that much more experienced? He needs their support and there seems to be a quite an integrated group of older pros at the core of the club.

Also (and freely I'll admit to this) I think we, as fans, concentrate a lot more on what players do when we have the ball whereas coaches value players' performances without the ball just as much. Maybe Davies just wasn't done as instructed without the ball?

I still agree that publicly criticizing Davies seems odd. However, maybe that's the dynamic Davies and Morison have?

[2b2bdoo]

Re: Izaak Davies

He’s coming out with a few odd things. Talking about Collins in his last interview and the “external noise” because he isn’t a regular welsh international. Seemed a dig at the fans.

[jon1959]

Re: Izaak Davies

He’s coming out with a few odd things. Talking about Collins in his last interview and the “external noise” because he isn’t a regular welsh international. Seemed a dig at the fans.

I don't think it was a dig.

Moore has a lot of credit with the fans because of his Wales heroics and 20 goals for us last season. Collins doesn't have that in the bank. We know what we can expect from Moore if he plays well (which he hasn't often this season). We don't really know if Collins is capable of a similar standard from a patchy half season and vague memories of Luton games on Quest. It is just a statement of fact.

[Don Corleone]

Re: Izaak Davies

I don’t think that’s true about Collins though, I think the majority of fans thought he was a decent signing on a free transfer, experienced, a regular scorer in the Championship and as such have been very patient with him.

His work rate is always good so that bought him time too, the criticism of Collins hasn’t been that vociferous so not sure where he is getting this “ external noise” stuff from

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Izaak Davies

I don’t think that’s true about Collins though, I think the majority of fans thought he was a decent signing on a free transfer, experienced, a regular scorer in the Championship and as such have been very patient with him.

His work rate is always good so that bought him time too, the criticism of Collins hasn’t been that vociferous so not sure where he is getting this “ external noise” stuff from

I’d agree, not sure who benefits from what Morison said - again an odd thing to come out with.

[The Lone Gunman]

Re: Izaak Davies

For a long time you’ve been calling for us to go to our youth, but now that we have you have quickly decided that the young manager in his very first senior role, that has given the youth more first team game time than anyone before him, is no longer appropriate for the job because he called a young player out publicly?

Morison hasn't given the youth more first team game time than McCarthy.

If we discount Ciaron Brown and Mark Harris, who are both 23, the number of league starts for each of the club's young players this season is as follows (starts under McCarthy first):

9 + 0 - Joel Bagan
3 + 0 - Sam Bowen
5 + 5 - Rubin Colwill
0 + 3 - Isaak Davies
0 + 2 - Kieron Evans
6 + 10 - Mark McGuinness
3 + 0 - Tom Sang
0 + 1 - Chanka Zimba

In his last six games, it's been noticeable that Morison has been consistently selecting the older players ahead of the youngsters. Indeed, he hasn't started any of the kids in his last two games.