Drakeford pulled no punches then

[lisvaneblue]

Re: Drakeford pulled no punches then

In which way is the NHS not fit for purpose and what should be done about it? The reason I ask is that I tend to hear the idea about it not being fit for purpose going hand in hand with private involvement.

Main areas that need attention:

1.Budget for health and social care need sorting. As we know lots of patients are taking up hospital beds because there is no provision for care at home. Part of the reason is that the social care budget is separate, so for local councils social care means cost, staying in hospital no cost. Sort bed blocking and that will help sort pressures on the ambulance service waits out side hospitals to discharge patients

2. GP services have become detached from the patients they are there to look after.

3. There is built in 'interia' in all parts of the health service and a lot of sloppy time consuming administrative practices, plus an immense multi tiered structure. It needs to smarten up its processes and flatten its structure and operate as a matrix organisation

4. There is an ongoing tension between day to day care and outcomes and the need for the brightest people eg doctors, surgeons etc to to do research, development and improve patient care.

5 There is too much autonomy in each trust, health authority, health region etc. They can spend a lot of money on their own personal agendas

That'll do for starters

[City123]

Re: Drakeford pulled no punches then

You know what, i was going to write something that attempted to explain why people feel the way they do about us as a nation having the ability to decide what is right for us, or at least as close as we can towards it, then i thought, nah, your post is enough for me

Nobody hates Wales more than the Welsh

[lisvaneblue]

Re: Drakeford pulled no punches then

The quote is about "insanity" not "stupidity" and has wrongly been attributed to Einstein since the 80s.

Not your best form in this thread LB.

You got the message and my attention, so not too bad

[The Lone Gunman]

Re: Drakeford pulled no punches then

I travelled through Spain, France, England and Wales during December and England was by far the most lax in terms of Covid measures.

What are the vaccine take-up figures in the countries you mentioned, any idea? It's not a rhetorical question, I don't know the answer, but I was under the impression that the UK was well-placed in that respect by comparison to most of the rest of Europe.

[The Lone Gunman]

Re: Drakeford pulled no punches then

Or are wondering why their routine hospital appointment has been delayed 2 months, or they can't get a train etc.

Delayed by two months? Are you sure?!? I was scheduled to have a knee replacement operation in either late-2021 or early-2022 and was a due a 'routine' appointment with the consultant in April 2020. Naturally enough, that was cancelled. I've heard absolutely nothing since.

[The Lone Gunman]

Re: Drakeford pulled no punches then

Too many people throwing toys out of prams because they can’t walk to the bar or watch a game of football.

Having a different opinion regarding the current restrictions equates to throwing toys out of prams? Really? Over the years, I've regarded you as one of the more sensible and level-headed contributors to this board, but your posts in recent months on this subject have often been pathetic. That's a shame.

[Tito Fuente]

Re: Drakeford pulled no punches then

You got the message and my attention, so not too bad

Apology accepted.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Re: Drakeford pulled no punches then

Delayed by two months? Are you sure?!? I was scheduled to have a knee replacement operation in either late-2021 or early-2022 and was a due a 'routine' appointment with the consultant in April 2020. Naturally enough, that was cancelled. I've heard absolutely nothing since.

Yes, the situation is far worse than waiting a couple of months. I was just using a random timescale. We've had to chase up appointments that were cancelled and we never heard anything afterwards.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Re: Drakeford pulled no punches then

I did read the article in full, otherwise I wouldn’t have posted, I actually believe the article is positive and put into perspective the current situation. If you also include population growth in the UK, alongside fewer hospital beds.

The key benchmark of A&E are waiting times, which reflects the efficiency of the NHS, and the article shows a downward trajectory, especially from this year to last year. Our Government has stated this is due to the vaccine programme.

The majority of people in hospital with Covid as you are probably aware, are admitted for other illness or conditions and tested positive whilst in hospital (this is a protocol of admission), even our our Mr Drakeford confirmed this yesterday.

Significant numbers of people in hospital who are fit to leave are unable to, because they have not got got sufficient care at home in place are classed as a hospital patient, these patients would typically have a low staff to patient ration, but are still deemed an admission.

It appears to me that some people aren’t happy reading positive articles regarding the pandemic and much prefer to live with the doom and gloom.

You really think that's a positive article? Keep clutching at those straws.

[Dorcus]

Re: Drakeford pulled no punches then

Main areas that need attention:

1.Budget for health and social care need sorting. As we know lots of patients are taking up hospital beds because there is no provision for care at home. Part of the reason is that the social care budget is separate, so for local councils social care means cost, staying in hospital no cost. Sort bed blocking and that will help sort pressures on the ambulance service waits out side hospitals to discharge patients

2. GP services have become detached from the patients they are there to look after.

3. There is built in 'interia' in all parts of the health service and a lot of sloppy time consuming administrative practices, plus an immense multi tiered structure. It needs to smarten up its processes and flatten its structure and operate as a matrix organisation

4. There is an ongoing tension between day to day care and outcomes and the need for the brightest people eg doctors, surgeons etc to to do research, development and improve patient care.

5 There is too much autonomy in each trust, health authority, health region etc. They can spend a lot of money on their own personal agendas

That'll do for starters

Not often I agree with you but I do in this case. There is plenty of scope to change the system and I propose that the way to start would be to set up a cross party parliamentary commission to initiate deliberations.

I'm actually not averse to making the NHS a means tested system at its base; charges being implemented on a sliding scale according to income/wealth and having the support of a government backed Health Insurance scheme.

As long as rock solid guarantees of the rejection of future privatisation were obtained I think it a worthwhile starting point for discussion. However you are absolutely right there needs to be a dispassionate analysis on how the administration burden can be better organized.

[lisvaneblue]

Re: Drakeford pulled no punches then

Not often I agree with you but I do in this case. There is plenty of scope to change the system and I propose that the way to start would be to set up a cross party parliamentary commission to initiate deliberations.

I'm actually not averse to making the NHS a means tested system at its base; charges being implemented on a sliding scale according to income/wealth and having the support of a government backed Health Insurance scheme.

As long as rock solid guarantees of the rejection of future privatisation were obtained I think it a worthwhile starting point for discussion. However you are absolutely right there needs to be a dispassionate analysis on how the administration burden can be better organized.

I'm glad you agree on the need for change. I don't think a cross party political group is the way to go. We need a group of experts who understand healthcare and organisational structures to look at it.
As far as a government backed health insurance scheme is concerned we already have one.....It's called the NHS.
Regarding privatisation, people think of the US model. But in UK we have a lot of privatisation...GP surgeries are private businesses contracted to the NHS, likewise dentists, optometrists, and community pharmacies. Similarly night time GP cover, locum services all supplied by private companies, as are the medicines we take.
Finally, there are already charges being implemented: NHS dental charges, eye test etc charges, prescription charges ( not in Wales where its free, but £9.35 per item in England)

It's all grown like topsy over the years and experience, and expectations, of patients have changed accordingly.

[goats]

Re: Drakeford pulled no punches then

Don’t think so…I wonder why cases are higher in Cardiff than Bristol where there are far fewer restrictions?

None of the resident virologists on here can explain this? Less covid cases in Bristol and less restrictions?

[Dorcus]

Re: Drakeford pulled no punches then

I'm glad you agree on the need for change. I don't think a cross party political group is the way to go. We need a group of experts who understand healthcare and organisational structures to look at it.
As far as a government backed health insurance scheme is concerned we already have one.....It's called the NHS.
Regarding privatisation, people think of the US model. But in UK we have a lot of privatisation...GP surgeries are private businesses contracted to the NHS, likewise dentists, optometrists, and community pharmacies. Similarly night time GP cover, locum services all supplied by private companies, as are the medicines we take.
Finally, there are already charges being implemented: NHS dental charges, eye test etc charges, prescription charges ( not in Wales where its free, but £9.35 per item in England)

It's all grown like topsy over the years and experience, and expectations, of patients have changed accordingly.

I agree for the need for health professionals to open the debate but I still think a cross-party parliamentary committee is essential to determine the frames of reference to exclude unwanted outcomes.

It is the government who is the guarantor of health provision and not the NHS because it's taxpayers' money which funds it.

I firmly believe big improvements can be made not only by resisting any further privatisation but curtailing any of it which is currently deployed

However, I think there is a case for doing away with private health care but in its place adopting a system of private health insurance payable on a sliding scale according to means. To put it bluntly an enormous burden of cost would be stripped out of the NHS if those who could afford to pay for their treatment actually made a contribution to the cost. Those without means would continue to have free care.

Apart from that the only rigid stipulation I would like to see is that unlike a conventional commercial insurance set up those who are unable to get funded because of prior conditions etc. should have the back up of the NHS to treat them as a right.

[nomad blue]

Re: Drakeford pulled no punches then

None of the resident virologists on here can explain this? Less covid cases in Bristol and less restrictions?

Not sure on this, but is there the same amount of testing happening in both? What's the positivity %, and number of people in ICU and being ventilated in Bristol compared to Cardiff? What are the hospitalisation figures there compared to Cardiff?