Covid Rules Collapsing

[TWGL1]

Re: Covid Rules Collapsing

Just to clarify (mainly, it appears, for Jimbo's sake).

TWGL1: "... it seems to me that regardless of lockdowns , masks, social distancing and arbitrary rules it makes little or no difference."

Az City: "... that's weapons grade bollocks."

TWGL1 asks for evidence of mitigation strategies making a difference.

Az City: China and its extreme lockdowns suppressing the virus.

Few different posters: Don't believe Chinese statistics.

Az City: Compare NZ with UK.

So, to summarize for the slow ones at the back (Jimbo), the argument is whether mitigation strategies for Covid 19 have made any difference. If you take the cases of NZ (instituted swift and comprehensive lockdown including an almost complete ban on travel) and the UK (did not have such stringent measures), I think it's fairly obvious that measures to mitigate the spread of the virus DO work.

Is it easier for NZ to do what it did compared with the UK because of its physical geography? Probably but that's irrelevant (Jimbo).

As of today, the lockdown strategy in respect of Covid appears to have been correct for NZ , However, I think it would be advisable to look at how they are doing in the next quarter to establish if it’s been a success ?

A few articles here offer an interesting perspective , so the jury is still out as cases are rising exponentially

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2292381-why-is-new-zealand-seemingly-giving-up-on-its-zero-covid-strategy/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/01/clearly-not-working-how-new-zealands-consensus-on-striving-for-covid-zero-is-finally-cracking

https://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o180?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIsYjwx5349QIViO_tCh2KFwbIEAMYASAAEgIfQ_D_BwE

[az city]

Re: Covid Rules Collapsing

As of today, the lockdown strategy in respect of Covid appears to have been correct for NZ , However, I think it would be advisable to look at how they are doing in the next quarter to establish if it’s been a success ?

A few articles here offer an interesting perspective , so the jury is still out as cases are rising exponentially

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2292381-why-is-new-zealand-seemingly-giving-up-on-its-zero-covid-strategy/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/01/clearly-not-working-how-new-zealands-consensus-on-striving-for-covid-zero-is-finally-cracking

https://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj....SAAEgIfQ_D_BwE

Is the argument you're making here that 'Covid will have its way with a population over the long term and that all mitigation strategies do is delay inevitable deaths'?

Because if it is, that's bollocks.

[az city]

Re: Covid Rules Collapsing

I see the sun has risen in Arizona and the lord has awoken..

You miss my point. No one doubts that with hindsight the UK locked down too late initially - that was probably the big covid error that no one really disputes.

My point is that if any country could adopt a 'zero covid' strategy it is New Zealand. It simply wouldn't have worked almost anywhere else given the amount it was already spreading in Europe, given europes open borders given the UKs open borders, given the extent of international travel in the UK. How many Brits had travelled to Italy in early March 2021 compared to how many kiwis?

Even the European countries that perhaps are comparable to NZ demographically such as Norway (who also handled the pandemic very well) still have a detah rate more than ten times greater than NZ.

The point isnt whether NZ's policies reduced deaths and the spread of Covid, because it undoubtedly did, the point is that NZ could adopt those policies whereas most other countries realistically could not, without extraordinary disruptions to supply chains, the economy, etc etc.

Basically it's not a coincidence that the only country to adopt this method is New Zealand.

Jimbo, the sun has indeed risen and it's forecast to be a glorious 80 later today.

Please read the posts. The argument is NOT about the ease of instigating mitigation strategies, IT IS about whether they are effective.

[TWGL1]

Re: Covid Rules Collapsing

Is the argument you're making here that 'Covid will have its way with a population over the long term and that all mitigation strategies do is delay inevitable deaths'?

Because if it is, that's bollocks.

I don’t agree , but you’re entitled to your opinion, as I said , as they have only recently relaxed the draconian measures, I’d personally prefer to see how it pans out. If it was such a success then other countries would have taken the same pathway after about 6 months in, however they didn’t for reasons already debated in detail on here and in the press.

[az city]

Re: Covid Rules Collapsing

I don’t agree , but you’re entitled to your opinion, as I said , as they have only recently relaxed the draconian measures, I’d personally prefer to see how it pans out. If it was such a success then other countries would have taken the same pathway after about 6 months in, however they didn’t for reasons already debated in detail on here and in the press.

Just so we are clear on the implication of what you're arguing. You're effectively saying old people are not worth treating because they are going to die eventually anyway.

Come on, man.

[TWGL1]

Re: Covid Rules Collapsing

Just so we are clear on the implication of what you're arguing. You're effectively saying if someone were diagnosed with covid, you think it's not worth treating the person because they are going to die eventually anyway.

Come on, man.

Kindly read the whole thread again and come back with a better answer FGS , I don’t know what you’re talking about here I’m afraid

[az city]

Re: Covid Rules Collapsing

Kindly read the whole thread again and come back with a better answer FGS , I don’t know what you’re talking about here I’m afraid

Treatment IS a covid mitigation strategy. You've now said several times you think mitigation strategies don't have any effect in the LR. Put your thinking cap on.

[TWGL1]

Re: Covid Rules Collapsing

[QUOTE=az city;5274251]Treatment IS a covid mitigation strategy. You've now said several times you think mitigation strategies don't have any effect in the LR. Put your thinking cap on.[/QUOTE

Some interventions work , but overall the benefit is cost neutral , according to many peers - I guess we will have to wait until we evaluate the results of the imminent enquiry.

[az city]

Re: Covid Rules Collapsing

[QUOTE=TWGL1;5274254]

Treatment IS a covid mitigation strategy. You've now said several times you think mitigation strategies don't have any effect in the LR. Put your thinking cap on.[/QUOTE

Some interventions work , but overall the benefit is cost neutral , according to many peers - I guess we will have to wait until we evaluate the results of the imminent enquiry.

You're Liz Truss. Where do I get my prize?

[life on mars]

Re: Covid Rules Collapsing

Did you actually read any of the discussion on why two years ago Covid was downgraded from an HCID before offering up this staggering insight?

Average age of Covid death is 81 to 83 .

70% over Covid deaths contracted in Hospital environments.

Britain's Covid Cases down by 30% , deaths down by a quarter , hospitalisations fall by 13%

[goats]

Re: Covid Rules Collapsing

I see the sun has risen in Arizona and the lord has awoken..

You miss my point. No one doubts that with hindsight the UK locked down too late initially - that was probably the big covid error that no one really disputes.

My point is that if any country could adopt a 'zero covid' strategy it is New Zealand. It simply wouldn't have worked almost anywhere else given the amount it was already spreading in Europe, given europes open borders given the UKs open borders, given the extent of international travel in the UK. How many Brits had travelled to Italy in early March 2021 compared to how many kiwis?

Even the European countries that perhaps are comparable to NZ demographically such as Norway (who also handled the pandemic very well) still have a detah rate more than ten times greater than NZ.

The point isnt whether NZ's policies reduced deaths and the spread of Covid, because it undoubtedly did, the point is that NZ could adopt those policies whereas most other countries realistically could not, without extraordinary disruptions to supply chains, the economy, etc etc.

Basically it's not a coincidence that the only country to adopt this method is New Zealand.

It will be interesting to see what happens in NZ over the next year or so, the population has no antibodies at all and they are opening up to the world again and I imagine a lot of people will want to go. Adding the fact the vaccine appears to wear off pretty quickly when tackling the omicron variant things could get a bit tricky? Let’s hope a further mutation makes the virus even weaker so every country can just get back to normal asap….

[cyril evans awaydays]

Re: Covid Rules Collapsing

Average age of Covid death is 81 to 83 .

70% over Covid deaths contracted in Hospital environments.

Britain's Covid Cases down by 30% , deaths down by a quarter , hospitalisations fall by 13%

All very interesting but what has it got to do with the explanation of why Covid was downgraded from an HCID two years ago? You seem to think this was some kind of recent event.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Covid Rules Collapsing

[QUOTE=TWGL1;5274254]

Treatment IS a covid mitigation strategy. You've now said several times you think mitigation strategies don't have any effect in the LR. Put your thinking cap on.[/QUOTE

Some interventions work , but overall the benefit is cost neutral , according to many peers - I guess we will have to wait until we evaluate the results of the imminent enquiry.

“Imminent”? Good luck with that.

[lisvaneblue]

Re: Covid Rules Collapsing

Average age of Covid death is 81 to 83 .

70% over Covid deaths contracted in Hospital environments.

Britain's Covid Cases down by 30% , deaths down by a quarter , hospitalisations fall by 13%

Interesting thread with the usual extremes of views. Things have moved on since Covid appeared on the scene and I believe life in UK should now return to normal.

Why do I say that?.... We have effective vaccines and the majority of us have had 3 doses. Pharma companies have confirmed that these can be tweaked to cover future variants.

We have two oral antiviral medicines available that reduce the severity of an infection by up to 90%

96% of UK population now have antibodies against Covid.

Mask wearing is a complete waste of time in everyday settings because they are not used properly. Disposal masks must be disposed of after a single use to be effective and reusable masks washed once a day. When I see well used masks pulled out of peoples pockets or handbags before entering a shop I know that they may as well tie a dirty handkerchief around their mouth/ nose.

Overall the virus is following the traditional pathway of variants being more transmissible but less virulent.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Covid Rules Collapsing

Just to add some balance as a regular poster on here has a habit of saying - I think the point about how the UK Government scientists should give us their grounds for believing why an end to all restrictions is justified is a fair one.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/12/scientists-plead-caution-covid-restrictions-lifted-england