When is this spineless answer to Putin going to stop?

[goats]

Re: When is this spineless answer to Putin going to stop?

Unfortunately this thing is going to run and run. Until Putin is somehow removed from power then we need to prepare for years of this turmoil. The Article 5 of NATO is all well and good but if the Americans get cold feet and don’t want to get involved in another European war then Putin has the whole continent in his pocket.

If Putin steps into another country we will have a huge war, no question about it. I think behind the scenes, moves to take him out will be underway from now on….

[Monster munch]

Re: When is this spineless answer to Putin going to stop?

If Putin steps into another country we will have a huge war, no question about it. I think behind the scenes, moves to take him out will be underway from now on….

Absolutely. Putin knows this though and i very much doubt his plan is to go for Latvia, Lithuania or Estonia because they are in Nato (As much as he'd like to). Its as if he's been given free reign of Ukraine.
Although Moldova and Georgia are getting very sweaty as they aren't part of it so wouldn't surprise me if he goes for them next depending how this turns out.

[Monster munch]

Re: When is this spineless answer to Putin going to stop?

Unfortunately this thing is going to run and run. Until Putin is somehow removed from power then we need to prepare for years of this turmoil. The Article 5 of NATO is all well and good but if the Americans get cold feet and don’t want to get involved in another European war then Putin has the whole continent in his pocket.

Uncle Sam would never get cold feet when it comes to the Russkies. It'll take just one russian renegade or soldier to enter, assault, fire a gun or fart in a Nato country and the yanks will be all bets in, pummelling Russian territory with cruise missiles. I wonder how many attack submarines are currently in the Baltic sea at the moment doing laps with itchy trigger fingers.
That's what i'm scared of the most.

[AfricanBluebird]

Re: When is this spineless answer to Putin going to stop?

He also mentions uncomfortable reminders about all those freedom and democracy loving bombs that rained down on Libya, Serbia, Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan by NATO and its member countries.
https://www.bitchute.com/video/GAH7af5xe3Qp/

Thing is... most on here, as thoughtful and intelligent adults can hold a number of conflicting opinions at the same time....

NATO has been pretty useless for 20 years, overreached and provide protectionism to larger member states to continue to control oil and infrastructure - BUT still offers some protection to members so sovereign states have every right to join, or not.

We can be critical (I have and continue to be) of our own governments who 'rained down bombs on Libya, Serbia, Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan' by NATO and its member countries' and STILL be critical of Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

We can also be critical and cynical of our own governments and NATO's lack of response in Yemen and other countries and still see Russia as a bad actor under Putin.

We can also all acknowledge that we have failed for years to counter Russia's misbehaviour - funding of terrorists, appeasing bad actors, funding misinformation, buying political favours, laundering money and poisoning people on British soil.

All of the above positions can be true and coexist in our minds. We don't have to appease Russia's behaviour because our governments have also acted badly.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: When is this spineless answer to Putin going to stop?

Absolutely. Putin knows this though and i very much doubt his plan is to go for Latvia, Lithuania or Estonia because they are in Nato (As much as he'd like to). Its as if he's been given free reign of Ukraine.
Although Moldova and Georgia are getting very sweaty as they aren't part of it so wouldn't surprise me if he goes for them next depending how this turns out.

Both Moldova and Georgia have areas of their countries under Russian control/influence and which are off-limits to the two governments within whose boundaries they fall.

[Gofer Blue]

Re: When is this spineless answer to Putin going to stop?

Is it possible that the reason the infamous column of tanks/artillery north of Kiev is not moving is not that there is a problem with it per se but rather that why should Putin risk losing thousands more Russian troops when he can first destroy the city as he has done in the south of Ukraine, and probably the morale of the people, using long range weapons like rockets and missiles? The fact that this is mass murder of civilians presumably doesn't concern him.

[Gofer Blue]

Re: When is this spineless answer to Putin going to stop?

African Bluebird - I have sent you a PM.

[Raymond Holt]

Re: When is this spineless answer to Putin going to stop?

We can also be critical and cynical of our own governments and NATO's lack of response in Yemen and other countries and still see Russia as a bad actor under Putin.

We can also all acknowledge that we have failed for years to counter Russia's misbehaviour - funding of terrorists, appeasing bad actors, funding misinformation, buying political favours, laundering money and poisoning people on British soil.

All of the above positions can be true and coexist in our minds. We don't have to appease Russia's behaviour because our governments have also acted badly.

Agree with the jist of your post and much of what you've said. But if NATO responded to the conflict in Yemen they'd be fighting themselves. The UK trains Saudi pilots and BAE has thousands of staff there maintaining the Saudi aircraft's weaponry.

https://questions-statements.parliam...21-06-04/10169

It seems we are also funding our own "information" campaigns in states surrounding Russia:

https://declassifieduk.org/uk-spends...around-russia/

[JamesWales]

Re: When is this spineless answer to Putin going to stop?

Crazily the world's two largest air forces are the US Air Force and the US Navy. Obviously if you're lumping them into one country Russia is second though

Someone is being paid by Hollywood to promote the forthcoming Top Gun film.

[blue matt]

Re: When is this spineless answer to Putin going to stop?

Exactly and a narrative that often gets left out of these conversations.

Deterrent they are not!

Various disarmament treaties have never gone far enough - INF Treaty (1987) and START I (1991) and START 2 (2003 I think).

Remember that the US withdrew from the INF Treaty in 2019 under president Donald Trump!!

Why have they not resulted in the eradication of nuclear weapons.... in the US the arms industry have lobbied, bribed, lied and cajoled to force the US to keep weapons while Russia.. well, under Putin have always been bad actors.

The Trouble with disarmament treaties is that ALL parties need to abide by it, and with Russia thats never going to happen, so why run the risk of us, france and the USA disarming and leaving ourselves open to Russia ? ? ? he wouldn't be stopping at the Ukrainian border if he was the only one holding the button for Nukes, it'll be, free pass or I'm pressing it

so in that aspect it is a deterrent

[jon1959]

Re: When is this spineless answer to Putin going to stop?

Thing is... most on here, as thoughtful and intelligent adults can hold a number of conflicting opinions at the same time....

NATO has been pretty useless for 20 years, overreached and provide protectionism to larger member states to continue to control oil and infrastructure - BUT still offers some protection to members so sovereign states have every right to join, or not.

We can be critical (I have and continue to be) of our own governments who 'rained down bombs on Libya, Serbia, Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan' by NATO and its member countries' and STILL be critical of Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

We can also be critical and cynical of our own governments and NATO's lack of response in Yemen and other countries and still see Russia as a bad actor under Putin.

We can also all acknowledge that we have failed for years to counter Russia's misbehaviour - funding of terrorists, appeasing bad actors, funding misinformation, buying political favours, laundering money and poisoning people on British soil.

All of the above positions can be true and coexist in our minds. We don't have to appease Russia's behaviour because our governments have also acted badly.

Good post.

[Wales-Bales]

Re: When is this spineless answer to Putin going to stop?

US Senator call for assassination

https://twitter.com/LindseyGrahamSC/status/1499574209567199235

[chrisp_1927]

Re: When is this spineless answer to Putin going to stop?

Looks like the majority of the anti tank weapons promised to Ukraine by Germany won't be turning up. They're all knackered, and the wooden boxes they are stored in are so rotten that protective suits are needed to enter the warehouse they are stored in.

[Swiss Peter]

Re: When is this spineless answer to Putin going to stop?

Looks like the majority of the anti tank weapons promised to Ukraine by Germany won't be turning up. They're all knackered, and the wooden boxes they are stored in are so rotten that protective suits are needed to enter the warehouse they are stored in.

Hi Chris. Do you have a link for this please?

[Dorcus]

Re: When is this spineless answer to Putin going to stop?

If Putin steps into another country we will have a huge war, no question about it. I think behind the scenes, moves to take him out will be underway from now on….

I think this is nearest to the truth. NATO would love to get engaged against the Russians but knows it would be suicide to do so. The most realistic, though hugely challenging, option would be to assassinate Putin.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if round the clock meetings are being held throughout the West trying to formulate a strategy to do so. The problem the West have got is that if it's executed by any one of them it becomes a declaration of war. It would have to be organized in such a way that it would be executed by a Russian citizen without the West being a smoking gun.