RMT Strikes

[Doucas]

Re: RMT Strikes

since 2008 wages have risen faster than inflation.

source

I see nothing on that which proves you right? It only goes up to 2017 for a start..

[Feedback]

Re: RMT Strikes

I think the fact wages have stagnated for 10+ years is a good indicator that employers have more power than employees, meanwhile the gap between the poorest in society (including those in employment) and the richest has continued to widen.

See my post above, wages have typically been rising faster than inflation since 2008. It is only since the end of the pandemic and the war in Ukraine that has seen inflation hit 40 year highs and have been above the BoE target of 2%.

[Feedback]

Re: RMT Strikes

I see nothing on that which proves you right?

inflation has been less than 2% pa since 2008, save for very recently when the post pandemic supply chain issues and the war on Ukraine have seen price rises not seen since the early 70s.

[Feedback]

Re: RMT Strikes

@doucas

this is a good graphic, which shows that in real terms, even allowing for CPI, general wage growth has been positive since 2008.

wage growth

[Doucas]

Re: RMT Strikes

inflation has been less than 2% pa since 2008, save for very recently when the post pandemic supply chain issues and the war on Ukraine have seen price rises not seen since the early 70s.

Ok so let's say you're right and that inflation has only gone up 2% a year which over 14 years is 28%. (I believe its gone up far higher, housing costs have gone up higher than 28% as has electricity, gas and fuel).

According to this source wages have gone up by only 21%. Which is a 7% reduction. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1002964/average-full-time-annual-earnings-in-the-uk/

I'd also argue that average wage is a poor metric to compare against and median wage would be better due to inequality growing.

[xsnaggle]

Re: RMT Strikes

Or take them back into public ownership and take out the massive profits given to shareholders and use the money to reinvest in the services and lowering ticket prices like the majority of European countries.

Scot rail has only been in public ownership weeks or months and the RTM is already calling everyone out on strike. Nationalisation hasn't helped there at all. They have just had to cut 30% of services due to union members refusing to do overtime ad the like, which means less revenue than ever to settle the issue.

[xsnaggle]

Re: RMT Strikes

Ok so let's say you're right and that inflation has only gone up 2% a year which over 14 years is 28%. (I believe its gone up far higher, housing costs have gone up higher than 28% as has electricity, gas and fuel).

According to this source wages have gone up by only 21%. Which is a 7% reduction. https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ngs-in-the-uk/

I'd also argue that average wage is a poor metric to compare against and median wage would be better due to inequality growing.

Its actually more than 28% because the 2% lift is year on year. As an exercise to demonstrate start with 100 and add 2% 14 times. You'll be surprised. I think it's nearer35%.

[Doucas]

Re: RMT Strikes

Its actually more than 28% because the 2% lift is year on year. As an exercise to demonstrate start with 100 and add 2% 14 times. You'll be surprised. I think it's nearer35%.

Really good point.

[insider]

Re: RMT Strikes

Scot rail has only been in public ownership weeks or months and the RTM is already calling everyone out on strike. Nationalisation hasn't helped there at all. They have just had to cut 30% of services due to union members refusing to do overtime ad the like, which means less revenue than ever to settle the issue.

Well give them a rise in line with inflation then.
End of strike.

[Eric Cartman]

Re: RMT Strikes

This is the issue really. Privatisation has worked well on coach travel, with megabus and national express etc competing, but on the railways, there are only limited routes offering genuine competition, and so the entire principle falls down, as you effectively have a series of monopolies.

Exactly this, and the recent decision by ofgem does precisely the same to the energy market. But I dont think this is by accident. I think that is the end game of croney capitalism, get the money to the people you want to have it and then kick away the ladder.

[chrisp_1927]

Re: RMT Strikes

Let's be clear . The scotrail 'strike' is not a strike. If employees don't want to work overtime that is their right. If you run a company so poorly that you rely on massive amounts of overtime from your staff to make things work, that is your issue as a business.

The government have given billions through covid to keep the railways running and they could have had some goodwill. I honestly think if they'd have made an offer of 3% it would have been accepted. Unfortunately they refused to really talk to companies or unions about pay. The train operators are now all on direct contracts so are completely reliant on dft decisions in terms of pay. I'm no fan of the rmt, but I don't think they had much of a choice here.

Hopefully an agreement can be made before strike action occurs. There is talk today that boris and the treasury are having a disagreement, boris wants to give a 5% rise, rishi says no.

[Feedback]

Re: RMT Strikes

Ok so let's say you're right and that inflation has only gone up 2% a year which over 14 years is 28%. (I believe its gone up far higher, housing costs have gone up higher than 28% as has electricity, gas and fuel).

According to this source wages have gone up by only 21%. Which is a 7% reduction. https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ngs-in-the-uk/

I'd also argue that average wage is a poor metric to compare against and median wage would be better due to inequality growing.

Inflation hasn't always been at 2% since 2008, quite a few years it was less and at one point it was even negative. However its kind of moot because if I have understood your post correctly, you're stating that inflation impacts different people in different ways. If this is the case I agree. In fact, I'd hazard a guess that wage inflation for those on lower incomes is probably less than for those on higher incomes across the period.

Even worse, CPI doesn't take into account mortgages so those who have bought houses in the period are probably even worse off overall.

[Feedback]

Re: RMT Strikes

Its actually more than 28% because the 2% lift is year on year. As an exercise to demonstrate start with 100 and add 2% 14 times. You'll be surprised. I think it's nearer35%.

As above, inflation was not 2% every year. It was a target for BoE but in some years it was less than 2%.

[xsnaggle]

Re: RMT Strikes

Let's be clear . The scotrail 'strike' is not a strike. If employees don't want to work overtime that is their right. If you run a company so poorly that you rely on massive amounts of overtime from your staff to make things work, that is your issue as a business.

The government have given billions through covid to keep the railways running and they could have had some goodwill. I honestly think if they'd have made an offer of 3% it would have been accepted. Unfortunately they refused to really talk to companies or unions about pay. The train operators are now all on direct contracts so are completely reliant on dft decisions in terms of pay. I'm no fan of the rmt, but I don't think they had much of a choice here.

Hopefully an agreement can be made before strike action occurs. There is talk today that boris and the treasury are having a disagreement, boris wants to give a 5% rise, rishi says no.

The agreement with Scotrail is for Krankie and her ilk, not Westminster.

The overtime problem was caused by no drivers being trained to fill vacancies during the covid panic because the unions would not allow people to attend for fear of catching it. Protecting their members by not running courses and now protecting their members because there are not enough drivers because the rail companies did not train anybody. (sorry about the pun lol)

makes perfect sense.

But you're right, it is not a strike but it will be because the RMT has stated clearly only this week that it intends to call all its members out

[xsnaggle]

Re: RMT Strikes

As above, inflation was not 2% every year. It was a target for BoE but in some years it was less than 2%.

I do not disagree, I was only pointing out that 2% for 14 years does not give you 28%. It is compounded. Simple maths.