Pele

[Mario Miethig]

Re: Pele

Maradona for me. We can talk about ability all day, none of us would end up agreeing. But when it comes to dragging ordinary players towards greatness, and fans alike, then there isn't anyone who can touch him in my opinion. He thrived on conflict, being the underdog.

Totally agree! Also had to put up with defenders like the Butcher of Bilbao, Goichochea and Claudio Gentile, who’s job was to stop Maradona at all costs in Spain 82. Kicked and punched Maradona from pillar to post.

[Hilts]

Re: Pele

Never understood this.

If Burrachaga/valdano had missed in 1986 and Higuain had scored in 2014, which are both completely plausible, then world cup wins would be reversed without maradona or messi doing anything different at all.

Is that really the difference between them?

Maradona would probably scored 2 or set 2 more up if theyd missed. He was that good in 86.


Plus Maradona also won at the time arguably the best league in the World with Napoli.

What i would agree is if Messi wins the World Cup id still rate Maradona at his best the better player and comfortably so.

[blue matt]

Re: Pele

In the eyes of plenty of Argentinians he has to win a world cup if he is to surpass Maradona.

maybe

But looking at careers, Messi playing at the very top for 20 years , Maradona 10 years

Messi has played over 400 games at the very top and scored twice the amount and is a 7 X Ballon d'Or winner,

[Rjk]

Re: Pele

Messi for me, but everyone is going to have a different opinion, and Saying Pele, Maradona or Either Ronaldo could be Equally valid.
Messi scored 91 goals in a calendar year, and is still operating at the highest level more than a decade later, just unreal.

Pele was very much before my time so I'm perhaps not the best judge, however it is fair to point out that Brazil were miles ahead of the other nations in terms of tactics, preparation, fitness etc during the 50s and 60s.
they had a huge team of doctors and physios and even a sports psychologist at the 1958 world cup.
at the 1962 world cup in Chile, England took a single doctor with them, and conditioning for the England players was 2 laps of the pitch followed by a cigarette.
Pele probably gets an advantage of being the figurehead player Inna team that were years ahead of all of the opposition

[Wash DC Blue]

Re: Pele

Maradona all day every day for me.
He did more by winning Serie A with Napoli than any of Messi's La Liga wins with Barca.

[StraightOuttaCanton]

Re: Pele

maybe

But looking at careers, Messi playing at the very top for 20 years , Maradona 10 years

Messi has played over 400 games at the very top and scored twice the amount and is a 7 X Ballon d'Or winner,

You’re using the Ballon d’Or as one of the measuring sticks? Really?

[Rjk]

Re: Pele

Maradona all day every day for me.
He did more by winning Serie A with Napoli than any of Messi's La Liga wins with Barca.

he didn't do much in European club competitions though or score anything like the numbers of Messi, but sure t
there's definitely a case for it

[Rjk]

Re: Pele

You’re using the Ballon d’Or as one of the measuring sticks? Really?

it's a prize for who is the best football player that year, seems fairly relevant tbh

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Pele

Never understood this.

If Burrachaga/valdano had missed in 1986 and Higuain had scored in 2014, which are both completely plausible, then world cup wins would be reversed without maradona or messi doing anything different at all.

Is that really the difference between them?

All I know is that Argentina 1986 were the closest thing I’ve seen to a one man team winning a major tournament. Maradona was a force of nature in that tournament and I’d say the other ten backing Messi up in his World Cups have been better than what Maradona had in 1986.

If Argentina win this tournament, then I’d make Messithe best.

[blue matt]

Re: Pele

You’re using the Ballon d’Or as one of the measuring sticks? Really?

one of them, but the playing at the very top level for a extra 10 years would be fairly important

[Dorcus]

Re: Pele

Just an honourable mention about Johann Crujff. Apart from Pele and Maradona I always thought he was Europe's candidate for best of all time. A phenomenal player.

[StraightOuttaCanton]

Re: Pele

it's a prize for who is the best football player that year, seems fairly relevant tbh

The Ballon d’Or wasn’t open to non-European players until the mid 90’s. Pele or Maradona could never have won it. It’s not relevant

[Rjk]

Re: Pele

The Ballon d’Or wasn’t open to non-European players until the mid 90’s. Pele or Maradona could never have won it. It’s not relevant

do you think Maradona would have won it ,seven times if it was? I don't
Pele possibly

[Rjk]

Re: Pele

Just an honourable mention about Johann Crujff. Apart from Pele and Maradona I always thought he was Europe's candidate for best of all time. A phenomenal player.

another honourable mention to Ronaldihno. not as much impact as any of the others mentioned for many reasons but arguably more naturally talented than any of them.

[Henry Hill]

Re: Pele

Never understood this.

If Burrachaga/valdano had missed in 1986 and Higuain had scored in 2014, which are both completely plausible, then world cup wins would be reversed without maradona or messi doing anything different at all.

Is that really the difference between them?

Maradona was a lot more patriotic than Messi. This is a man who had Italian people supporting Argentina against Italy in a World cup semi final being held in Italy.

Messi moved away from Argentina when he was a child. Mardona come from the slums to be the best footballer im the world. Argentinians will never relate to Messi like they do Maradona.