The take-away is this, some people will play fast and loose with the truth but expect Christians to get all their facts spot on. It works both ways.Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
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The take-away is this, some people will play fast and loose with the truth but expect Christians to get all their facts spot on. It works both ways.Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
If a few war memorials are sprayed with paint then hopefully those idiots caught doing it will get a slap or get nicked or bothQuote:
Originally Posted by pipster
It won't represent ordinary people marching against the bombing of innocent people
That's a far bigger issue in the grand scheme of things than mindless idiots who have no respect
Christians don't lie ?Quote:
Originally Posted by truthpaste
I beg to differ with that opinion
If memorials are defaced in any way, IMO it would be a massive own goal, and a groundswell would rise against those doing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
Well it wouldn't surprise me if one or two clowns got throughQuote:
Originally Posted by Heathblue
It's clearly not right but its almost like braverman and her gang of torch bearers are wanting it to happen
It's already happened mind.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b2443611.html
Well that's not loading for meQuote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
And there you have it! SF, I suspect you wouldn't accept God if Jesus himself popped up in your home tonight to talk to you. I think you would convince yourself that it was an illusion/conjuring trick. I'm afraid you are letting your fellow atheists down with your rants – at least they appear to have taken the time to examine and critique Christianity!Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
It seems you refuse to read anything written about the evidence for God. If you don't want to read the Bible because you believe it's just a book of fairy tales, then how about having a look at Lee Strobel's book “The Case for Christ”. If no, is it perhaps because you are afraid that it might make sense? Strobel was an avowed atheist, convinced that "people created God because they were afraid of death," and his hedonistic lifestyle revealed no spiritual inclinations whatsoever. Strobel himself admitted: "I lived an immoral, drunken, profane, narcissistic, self-destructive kind of life."
I have read Dawkins's God Delusion and found it to be very interesting with some thought-provoking ideas. I am not afraid to have my understanding challenged, are you?
Take a look at this video by Strobel. It's called "Disproving the Resurrection", the latter being the lynch-pin of Christianity. It will answer a lot of your questions. It's only about 20 minutes long.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1txIpicCMY
If anyone can disprove the resurrection to me, I would immediately renounce my Christian faith.
Criminal damage and unhelpful to the millions who want a ceasefire and justice for Palestine.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
But a rare incident.
If the march does go ahead on Saturday (now seems likely after Sunak's grandstanding and retreat) the people on it will be miles away from the Cenotaph, will be well stewarded (and well disciplined based on the last few) for a gathering of that size and will be marching at a different time from the silence and a different day from the majority of remembrance events.
But thanks to Braverman and her fellow agitators there may be a far right counter demonstration on Saturday (Yaxley-Lennon is getting his troops ready) and there is an open goal for anyone wanting to cause trouble and undermine the solidarity movement. If there is any criminal damage or 'disrespect' (whatever that means this week - probably spraying Free Palestine somewhere) it could easily be by people who have more in common with the IDF, the EDL or Daily Mail leader writers than the main marchers.
Hmm, maybe. I do think you hold some people to far lower standards though tbh Jon. There's a litany of distasteful things associated with these marches now.Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
I really do think they are emboldening Israel too, so pretty useless in that respect.
I just hope it goes fine this weekend, as it is a potential tinderbox ATM.
I, m certainly of the opinion that 99.999999% of those demoing for the Palestinians are genuine but agree that there are always a fringe with an alterrior motive who spoil it for the genuine and agree that there will be a hope by some that it does kick off.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
Old v young
Black v white
Male v female
Religion v religion
The division is deliberately manipulated IMO
Together you are strong
Divided you are weak
Q
I have watched that in its entiretyQuote:
Originally Posted by Gofer Blue
The Virgin birth , the resurrection, two of the basic tenents of Christian faith are mentioned
But no evidence apart from references to a 2000 year old book are provided
I can't proceed and take on a life system based on no evidence
If god existed then he's had 2000 years since Jesus was around to prove us of his existence
If Christians believe God is omnipresent and all powerful then he would obviously be regularly proving to us of his existence
It's been a long time since books were at the centre of learning
Why hasn't he made a film and sent it to all the churches in the world? He's all powerful and everywhere .....why can't he do that ?
Dvds , recordings of his voice , miracles live on air ?
Man is crap compared to God so they say ? Well if man can put someone on the moon ......why can't God use his power to stop all the doubters pissing him off ?
Instead of answering those sort of easy to prove questions we get told by the fella in that video that the bible is the truth because several people around at the same time can back it up ?
That sort of collusion has always gone on , it's not evidence at all
I could never base my life on something that has no legitimacy and substance and there is nothing in that video and that is because there is no God
People are of course free to believe what they want but if a priest tells me he has a cure for a disease I will get what he gives me analysed by a scientist and doctor first
Mostly talked about and associated by your mate braverman , stoked up by braverman and further propelled by garbage like gb news , talk tv and the internetQuote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
Yeah that's not true though is it.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
Yes it's true that the awful things you and braverman are talking about are mostly fear mongeringQuote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
The Rochdale incident was two teenage boys , stupid foolish idiots
But it wasn't a firebombing
There are going to be incidents this weekend but there are 60 million people in the UK
Strobel at the time was not only an atheist but a hardened and skeptical journalist from Chicago. Unlike over 99% of atheists, he had the time and the contacts to disprove the Bible and go out to disprove the historical evidence for Resurrection of Christ by mainly using evidence OUTSIDE of the Bible. Like you, why would he trust the Bible?Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
If you are too afraid to watch what he found, then you are only running from the facts.
I suspect you have more backbone than that, so I await your comments & questions > *THE CASE FOR CHRIST.
And yes, it's a movie, but eternity is a whole lot longer :sherlock:
Oh, the irony!Quote:
Originally Posted by truthpaste
I don't have a 'world view'. I am open minded and am happy to take on board any verifiable facts or likely reasons for things and am happy to revise my thought as any new reliable information comes to pass. There are many things I don't understand in the meantime. It's the opposite of having an imprinted religion invented by people who had no understanding of evolution, DNA, the Universe but believed in talking snakes and talking donkeys.Quote:
Originally Posted by truthpaste
There is no equivalence between your and my way of thinking.
So, well done for watching the video. It's interesting that you use the term "collusion". I've asked the question several times I think and that is, what was in it for them i.e. those first followers of Jesus? Apart from torture and agonising death at the hands of the Romans, not a lot! Would they really go for that based on a lie?Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
As for the age of the book, I don't see how that is relevant. We forget that back then there was a strong oral tradition as most people were illiterate. This does not mean that they were stupid of course. As Strobel pointed out, as we get older we cannot recall precisely what we were doing at all times in our lives but when there were certain remarkable/memorable events we surely don't forget those. I will soon be 77 years old and I can clearly remember certain events from my secondary school days 60 or so years ago. For example, my grandfather, who I was very close to, died in 1965 and I can recall in minute details the events the day he died and the day of his funeral. I'm pretty confident if I had been around at the time and watched Jesus (or anyone else come to that) die by crucifixion and then seen him alive a few days later, I would not have forgotten such events!
Anyway, hopefully this has caused you to stop and think at least.
Best regards,
Gofer.
OK, so you don't have a world view. Out of interest, this is the world view of the atheist Richard Dawkins:Quote:
Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie
“We are survival machines – robot vehicles blindly programmed to preserve the selfish molecules known as genes. Our genes made us. We animals exist for their preservation and are nothing more than throwaway survival machines. The world of the selfish gene is one of savage competition, ruthless exploitation and deceit”.
“If there is ever a time of plenty, this very fact will automatically lead to an increase in population until the natural state of starvation and misery is restored”.
(Both quotations from Dawkins's book “River Out of Eden: A Darwinian View of Life”).
What a sad world he describes. One wonders how he reconciles that view with his own life experiences and how the concept of love and kindness ever came into being.
Why do you believe that Jesus was the son of God when the Jews don't? Why do you believe that he was the result of a virgin birth when the Jews don't? Why do you recognise the New Testament when the Jews don't?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gofer Blue
About as rare as a pregnant woman being beheaded and then her unborn child being cut out and also beheaded. That is one of the many reasons why Israel will not stop until Hamas as been put out and why post Hamas, Palestine will be closely monitored.Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
Both sides want to live in peace - apart from Hamas. And yes - the places where Israel should not have built houses should be turned into a no mans land, where no one can live, make it a nature reserve or anything but a place where people live. Maybe the UN should create a new zone and stick all the asylum seekers there ?
I have watched itQuote:
Originally Posted by truthpaste
No evidence at all
There is no evidence in that videoQuote:
Originally Posted by Gofer Blue
Kind regards to you too
October 7th was incredibly rareQuote:
Originally Posted by pipster
An appalling atrocity
What do you think the 4000 deaths of children in bombing by Israel is ?
It's still going on , today
The UN have described it as an atrocity
FFS - The fact you have to ask that.... what do you think I think of it?Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
The loss of anyone, man woman or child or unborn baby is terrible.
At least in some small way, some and only some in Gaza had the chance to get out, otherwise it could be even worse, Hamas ordered some to stay put. The people slaughtered, raped, shot, burnt and beheaded on Oct 7 in the Hamas attack didnt get a warning or werent even aware of what was about to happen. An eye for an eye never works - but in that region - it certainly is the MO.
My opinion - Israel wont stop until they have Hamas wiped out and they wont leave until a UN peace keeping force turn up.
Why do you think the UN have not put a peace keeping force in there ?
Do you think Hamas now regret being the architects of their own destruction ?
The firing of lazer guided bombs knowing they will kill innocent kids is murder and no better than the murder of innocents in IsraelQuote:
Originally Posted by pipster
So comment on one aspect of his research and explain why he's mistaken in that area?Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
You didn't answer his question.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
This is what he asked >> "Do you think Hamas now regret being the architects of their own destruction ?"
I thought that was a jokeQuote:
Originally Posted by truthpaste
Hamas don't care wether Israel kills 100000 fighters or none at all
Israel can talk about flattening the whole of the middle east if it wants to, there will always be Arabs ready to kill Israelis and vice versa , Israel will never eradicate terrorism wether its hamas or a solitary suicide bomber , its all the same thing
I want you lot to provide evidence , proper evidenceQuote:
Originally Posted by truthpaste
Not academic reading of previous fairy stories
It shouldn't be difficult
But it is because no evidence exists
Something on film ?
God talking to his followers in a field , filmed by the BBC
If God is this incredible superhuman being , around through the ages that's not going to be difficult for him to do
I don't want one of his brainwashed followers like you or the bloke in the video telling me he exists
I want evidence
You know there isn't any we know that but I suppose it's a game
It says a great deal about anyone watching the video concerned if they consider it to be good evidence of the resurrection etc. It's absolutely vacuous.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
Nothing in it at allQuote:
Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie
If I spend 200 quid on blow up dolls my bank account will be minus 200 quid and 2 days later Gloria will arrive in the post
That's physical evidence
If you break into someone's house and steal their tv and forget to wear gloves then your dna and fingerprints will be left on the TV
Solid, undisputed evidence that you are a thief and are guilty
That's what we heathens want , solid evidence
And given the power of God as told to us by his followers then it should be easy to provide
What someone said in an old book is not evidence
It's 2023 , it's time to prove he exists
Bollox you did.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
Interesting to hear that Yaz Ashmawi (the man who glitter bombed your hero) is planning on doing some interesting things at the 'march' on Saturday
I'm not here to defend Richard Dawkins but if you were to know anything about him he discusses such things - and even describes himself as 'a romantic soul', cries when he listens to music and discusses the topic of love. I think you are extremely ill-informed regarding this matter. No surprises there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gofer Blue
Statements like hamas have been architects of their own destruction are nonsense and I can only think they are a jokeQuote:
Originally Posted by pipster
You asked me if pie was my hero previously
Are you asking me again ?
He's not but he's extremely funny and right on the money
Very few people are standing up for this ghastly woman , even in her government
What about you ?
I think the question about Hamas and its destruction is a reasonable one. It may have bargained on a wider conflagration to further its aims but that seems quite a way away and in any event shows its cynicism and callousness for the people it purports to protect!Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
What some self publicising feckwit has to do with it (Yaz Ashmawi but Pipster equally fits the bill) is anyone's guess!
Well for me it's likely that in 100 years when we are long dead that another hamas or hamas type monster will be in placeQuote:
Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays
Desperate times breed desperate people or in the case of hamas savages
But hamas won't care a toss if it's they are someone else who is killing Jews
I really don't see the question is relevant at all
Until a 2 state solution ......probably never ....is achieved this madness and counter madness will continue
All that can be done in the absence of peace is to keep a lid on the killing
But the question was about Hamas in its current iteration, not what else this may spawn. Not many people talk about Al Queda or even ISIS these days but I would guess as long as there is a cause some people will rally to whatever flag is fluttering. I have little doubt that without a political solution the future you describe is the most likely scenario.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
The problem is that Hamas disappear, but new groups emerge. There is a long history of Islamic extremism now, not helped by proxy Shia/Sunni conflicts, Iran, Saudi Arabia and all the rest of it.
What, I guess, Israel wants is to so brutally eliminate Hamas that no one would want to bring it upon themselves to wish to be ruled by them again. Whether that works or not is up for debate, but I'm sceptical. How many of us have ever known peace in the middle east?
For me it's hard to see peace in the wider region while Iran is the theocracy that it is and also whilst we don't have a proper two-state solution to Palestine and Israel (thats why the river to the sea chant matters..it takes us further from peace) - Israel isn't going anywhere, that needs to be accepted and so too is Palestine. It could be wiped off the map, but that woul rightly provoke such outrage that a war of annihilation would surely follow?
The irony is that whilst the wider middle east is in its usual state of unease, it has never been richer or had more influence globally - the Qatar and Saudi world cups help demonstrate that.
What needs to happen? For me, the complete destruction of Hamas, followed by a global effort much like the post WW2 era to build a proper and viable two party state - Israel withdrawing from the west bank etc, some kind of transport link from the West Bank to Gaza, I dunno, but things can't carry on like this.