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Re: Immigration the last thing in the Tories' armour?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
But surely the Conservatives cannot claim to be the party to sort out immigration when they've failed to do so in 13 years and, hopefully, people will see through this.
Who do you blame for the 13 years previous to that ? when Tony and Gordon were in power
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Re: Immigration the last thing in the Tories' armour?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
Some people say that immigration is just used for cheap labour in these areas but if the UK workforce is not interested , not trained or simply not capable of filling these jobs then we have no choice
Sir Marcus Rose said that, when arguing to stay in the EU, then quickly realised he was arguing for cheap labour that would keep his wage bill down and hence the wages of the every day working man and woman.
So Sludge - are you for cheap labour or against it ?
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Re: Immigration the last thing in the Tories' armour?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pipster
Sir Marcus Rose said that, when arguing to stay in the EU, then quickly realised he was arguing for cheap labour that would keep his wage bill down and hence the wages of the every day working man and woman.
So Sludge - are you for cheap labour or against it ?
The Tories have been in charge for 13 years
The country have voted the utter tosspots in
It's their fault , not mine , you should ask them about cheap labour
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Re: Immigration the last thing in the Tories' armour?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pipster
Who do you blame for the 13 years previous to that ? when Tony and Gordon were in power
The people who wanted cheap veg in the supermarket 365 days a year
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Re: Immigration the last thing in the Tories' armour?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pipster
Who do you blame for the 13 years previous to that ? when Tony and Gordon were in power
As far as I'm concerned, after 13 years, everything wrong with the UK is entirely down to the Tories, pretty much the same as when Labour were in power for 13 years when they could no longer blame Thatcher.
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Re: Immigration the last thing in the Tories' armour?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pipster
Who do you blame for the 13 years previous to that ? when Tony and Gordon were in power
And what happened then was that people showed their disapproval of what happened in 2008, and to an extent the Gulf War, by voting Labour out. With studies galore showing that the average working person has got poorer since 2010, the richest have got richer, food bank use has exploded, the NHS slipped into crisis and life expectancy went down in the years before Covid, why do you consistently choose to defend the party who have been in power during that time?
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Re: Immigration the last thing in the Tories' armour?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
As far as I'm concerned, after 13 years, everything wrong with the UK is entirely down to the Tories, pretty much the same as when Labour were in power for 13 years when they could no longer blame Thatcher.
In a way you are essentially saying what I have said for years on here and the reason I do not vote, there is no red or blue party, even orange or green for that matter, whoever gets elected are just a branch of the uniparty and serve the unelected bodies above them who dictate world policy. Divided you are weak, together you are strong.
'Q'
NCSWIC
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Re: Immigration the last thing in the Tories' armour?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
And what happened then was that people showed their disapproval of what happened in 2008, and to an extent the Gulf War, by voting Labour out. With studies galore showing that the average working person has got poorer since 2010, the richest have got richer, food bank use has exploded, the NHS slipped into crisis and life expectancy went down in the years before Covid, why do you consistently choose to defend the party who have been in power during that time?
It also 'exploded' in socialist France - much more so (3 times more) than the UK
1984 France introduced food banks - 1997 in the UK. France turns over the 3 times as much in their food banks than the UK does - with a similar sized population..... whose fault is that ?
ps re 13 years - we have 26 years of Labour in the Welsh Assembly.... happy about that are you ?
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Re: Immigration the last thing in the Tories' armour?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pipster
It also 'exploded' in socialist France - much more so (3 times more) than the UK
1984 France introduced food banks - 1997 in the UK. France turns over the 3 times as much in their food banks than the UK does - with a similar sized population..... whose fault is that ?
ps re 13 years - we have 26 years of Labour in the Welsh Assembly.... happy about that are you ?
Unless or until we get full independence in Wales, what the UK Government does effectsour lives far more than the Welsh Assembly does.
All you’ve got to come back with is it’s worse with Foodbanks in France which does nothing to make my statement that their use has exploded in this country under the Tories wrong. I know it’s hard being a Conservative voter these days, but you really shouldn’t have bothered replying if that’s all you’ve got to say.
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Re: Immigration the last thing in the Tories' armour?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
And what happened then was that people showed their disapproval of what happened in 2008, and to an extent the Gulf War, by voting Labour out. With studies galore showing that the average working person has got poorer since 2010, the richest have got richer, food bank use has exploded, the NHS slipped into crisis and life expectancy went down in the years before Covid, why do you consistently choose to defend the party who have been in power during that time?
You do realise that in 2010, Labour chancellor Alistair Darling was preparing to enact Austerity policies that the Conservatives/Lib Dems eventually did? People conveniently forget this. Brown didn't agree with him but Brown would've eventually been faced with the reality that his chancellor did. You can source our particulary bad suffering, post financial crash to Labour's behaviour and borrowing pre 2008.
Also, life expectancy is far more complex than adding few extra quid to the poor's budget. There's been a huge shift in dietry behaviour with obesity rising. Yes, Obesity rising in a time where food banks have EXPLODED
On the matter of food banks, i think they're better than state handouts. It's a more efficient use of money, targeting those really in need.
I'm sure that i once heard foodbanks were in large part state funded.
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Re: Immigration the last thing in the Tories' armour?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NinianOpinion1927
You do realise that in 2010, Labour chancellor Alistair Darling was preparing to enact Austerity policies that the Conservatives/Lib Dems eventually did? People conveniently forget this. Brown didn't agree with him but Brown would've eventually been faced with the reality that his chancellor did. You can source our particulary bad suffering, post financial crash to Labour's behaviour and borrowing pre 2008.
Also, life expectancy is far more complex than adding few extra quid to the poor's budget. There's been a huge shift in dietry behaviour with obesity rising. Yes, Obesity rising in a time where food banks have EXPLODED
On the matter of food banks, i think they're better than state handouts. It's a more efficient use of money, targeting those really in need.
I'm sure that i once heard foodbanks were in large part state funded.
I have to correct myself. After a google search it seems foodbanks aren't directly state funded. It's mainly the trussel trust who are funded by the national lottery/comic relief.
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Re: Immigration the last thing in the Tories' armour?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NinianOpinion1927
You do realise that in 2010, Labour chancellor Alistair Darling was preparing to enact Austerity policies that the Conservatives/Lib Dems eventually did? People conveniently forget this. Brown didn't agree with him but Brown would've eventually been faced with the reality that his chancellor did. You can source our particulary bad suffering, post financial crash to Labour's behaviour and borrowing pre 2008.
Also, life expectancy is far more complex than adding few extra quid to the poor's budget. There's been a huge shift in dietry behaviour with obesity rising. Yes, Obesity rising in a time where food banks have EXPLODED
On the matter of food banks, i think they're better than state handouts. It's a more efficient use of money, targeting those really in need.
I'm sure that i once heard foodbanks were in large part state funded.
Sounds like you blame Labour for things that happened on and off their watch. That’s not on, because you’re not doing the same for the Tories - you’re trying to make them not responsible for things that happened when they were in Government. That could have some traction if we were talking about a one term Government, but this is going to be a fourteen year one at least.
You maybe able to source what’s happened in the past fourteen years to Labour pre 2008, but your judgement is clearly completely biased and I’m not really in the mood to argue with someone who’ll no doubt be posting on here under a different name in a few weeks/months.
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Re: Immigration the last thing in the Tories' armour?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NinianOpinion1927
I have to correct myself. After a google search it seems foodbanks aren't directly state funded. It's mainly the trussel trust who are funded by the national lottery/comic relief.
Of course they’re not.Have you ever lived in Hartlepool by any chance?
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Re: Immigration the last thing in the Tories' armour?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pipster
It also 'exploded' in socialist France - much more so (3 times more) than the UK
1984 France introduced food banks - 1997 in the UK. France turns over the 3 times as much in their food banks than the UK does - with a similar sized population..... whose fault is that ?
ps re 13 years - we have 26 years of Labour in the Welsh Assembly.... happy about that are you ?
Have you noticed how I'm answering your questions and you're ignoring mine?
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Re: Immigration the last thing in the Tories' armour?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pipster
It also 'exploded' in socialist France - much more so (3 times more) than the UK
1984 France introduced food banks - 1997 in the UK. France turns over the 3 times as much in their food banks than the UK does - with a similar sized population..... whose fault is that ?
ps re 13 years - we have 26 years of Labour in the Welsh Assembly.... happy about that are you ?
Blaming WG for the ills present in the whole of the UK is like blaming your kids that they can’t afford something from the shop on your pocket money.
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Re: Immigration the last thing in the Tories' armour?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Sounds like you blame Labour for things that happened on and off their watch. That’s not on, because you’re not doing the same for the Tories - you’re trying to make them not responsible for things that happened when they were in Government. That could have some traction if we were talking about a one term Government, but this is going to be a fourteen year one at least.
You maybe able to source what’s happened in the past fourteen years to Labour pre 2008, but your judgement is clearly completely biased and I’m not really in the mood to argue with someone who’ll no doubt be posting on here under a different name in a few weeks/months.
I'd say you are far more biased than me. You said the other day that you can't see the point of the Conservative Party at all, ever. I find that pretty biased & extreme.
I am naturally more Conservative but if Labour weren't partially responsible for the deep cuts i'd say so, i'm not in an echo chamber either. Listen to Beeb a lot so i can understand all points of view.
You keep talking about austerity and wrongly attributing negative outcomes to it with sensationalist language. I.E. Food Banks "exploding" life expectancy dropping etc
Kenneth Clarke was on a Radio4 discussion the other day. He said, without any pushback from the left wing guest, that Chancellor Alistair Darling was drawing up plans for austerity had Labour won the 2010 election. Is this true ?because i've never seen you mention it
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Re: Immigration the last thing in the Tories' armour?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Of course they’re not.Have you ever lived in Hartlepool by any chance?
No i haven't ever lived in Hartlepool, why?
Food banks are funded in large part by the national lottery, so maybe the Government have instructed them to donate. I'm not sure how Lottery funds are divided. But if the government tell the lottery how to spend and they're spending on foodbanks, you could say the government are supporting food banks.
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Re: Immigration the last thing in the Tories' armour?
Will be interesting to see how Argentina pans out over say the next two years currently massive inflation, 150% I've read but did not check, he's so far sacked a massive tranche of government and has said he is going to get rid of the Central Bank fiat currency.
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Re: Immigration the last thing in the Tories' armour?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NinianOpinion1927
You do realise that in 2010, Labour chancellor Alistair Darling was preparing to enact Austerity policies that the Conservatives/Lib Dems eventually did? People conveniently forget this. Brown didn't agree with him but Brown would've eventually been faced with the reality that his chancellor did. You can source our particulary bad suffering, post financial crash to Labour's behaviour and borrowing pre 2008.
Also, life expectancy is far more complex than adding few extra quid to the poor's budget. There's been a huge shift in dietry behaviour with obesity rising. Yes, Obesity rising in a time where food banks have EXPLODED
On the matter of food banks, i think they're better than state handouts. It's a more efficient use of money, targeting those really in need.
I'm sure that i once heard foodbanks were in large part state funded.
Go on..
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Re: Immigration the last thing in the Tories' armour?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Sounds like you blame Labour for things that happened on and off their watch. That’s not on, because you’re not doing the same for the Tories - you’re trying to make them not responsible for things that happened when they were in Government. That could have some traction if we were talking about a one term Government, but this is going to be a fourteen year one at least.
You maybe able to source what’s happened in the past fourteen years to Labour pre 2008, but your judgement is clearly completely biased and I’m not really in the mood to argue with someone who’ll no doubt be posting on here under a different name in a few weeks/months.
Labour were running a historically unremarkable deficit pre-2008, it was actually reducing in the years prior so it's not just biased, it's nonsense.
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Re: Immigration the last thing in the Tories' armour?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NinianOpinion1927
No i haven't ever lived in Hartlepool, why?
Food banks are funded in large part by the national lottery, so maybe the Government have instructed them to donate. I'm not sure how Lottery funds are divided. But if the government tell the lottery how to spend and they're spending on foodbanks, you could say the government are supporting food banks.
When the Conservatives won the Hartlepool by election a few years ago, there was an interview with someone who said he voted Tory because they’d opened more food banks in the town in the last few years :facepalm:
Do you seriously think that if the Government could claim any credit relating to the funding of food banks they’d keep schtum about it? I’m not saying that just to have a dig at the Conservatives, Labour would be the same as well.
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Re: Immigration the last thing in the Tories' armour?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric Cartman
Labour were running a historically unremarkable deficit pre-2008, it was actually reducing in the years prior so it's not just biased, it's nonsense.
They shouldn't have been running a deficit at all, the economy was booming. They increased spending and didn't fund it adequately through taxation. But Brown believed that he ended boom and bust so there was nothing to worry about lol....then 2008 happened and due to Brown's over spending we weren't as well placed to cope, leading to a requirement for deeper Austerity
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Re: Immigration the last thing in the Tories' armour?
And another thing, this link states that the number of UK foodbanks increased around forty fold in the ten years following 2010, I’d say that’s an explosion.
https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentra...idual%20venues.
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Re: Immigration the last thing in the Tories' armour?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
When the Conservatives won the Hartlepool by election a few years ago, there was an interview with someone who said he voted Tory because they’d opened more food banks in the town in the last few years :facepalm:
Do you seriously think that if the Government could claim any credit relating to the funding of food banks they’d keep schtum about it? I’m not saying that just to have a dig at the Conservatives, Labour would be the same as well.
Ah ok. I don't think governments would want to brag about funding food banks because it's quite an emotive topic. So, best to leave it.
I'm interested now how the national lottery decide who recieves donations. I'd bet it's determined by the government in some way.
Personally, i think food banks are a good, efficient method of helping those who really need help. If the government were to do the same job directly, they'd undoubtedly spend more with loads of bureaucracy.
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Re: Immigration the last thing in the Tories' armour?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric Cartman
Go on..
"But it was arguably not sufficiently financed through taxation, and direct taxation in particular. The result was a run up of public deficits prior to the current financial and economic crisis, which broke the government's own fiscal rules. This in turn prepared the way for a substantial deterioration in public finances when the current crisis broke, a deterioration which may take years, if not decades to set right"
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Re: Immigration the last thing in the Tories' armour?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NinianOpinion1927
"But it was arguably not sufficiently financed through taxation, and direct taxation in particular. The result was a run up of public deficits prior to the current financial and economic crisis, which broke the government's own fiscal rules. This in turn prepared the way for a substantial deterioration in public finances when the current crisis broke, a deterioration which may take years, if not decades to set right"
You’ve put it in inverted commas, so I assume you’re quoting someone - who?
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Re: Immigration the last thing in the Tories' armour?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NinianOpinion1927
They shouldn't have been running a deficit at all, the economy was booming. They increased spending and didn't fund it adequately through taxation. But Brown believed that he ended boom and bust so there was nothing to worry about lol....then 2008 happened and due to Brown's over spending we weren't as well placed to cope, leading to a requirement for deeper Austerity
That's a very childish way of looking at running a country, surely it depends what you are spending it on.
I think he did end boom and bust because for the last 13 years we haven't seen any of the boom bit.
Saying 'a requirement for deeper austerity' implies it worked. It didn't, we never reached the surplus that they kept forecasting because growth was shite and so the debt pile just increased.
I think Bob probably had it right earlier in the thread about you.
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Re: Immigration the last thing in the Tories' armour?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NinianOpinion1927
They shouldn't have been running a deficit at all, the economy was booming. They increased spending and didn't fund it adequately through taxation. But Brown believed that he ended boom and bust so there was nothing to worry about lol....then 2008 happened and due to Brown's over spending we weren't as well placed to cope, leading to a requirement for deeper Austerity
2008 was a huge event
Brown was praised for his handling of it , worldwide
It was every bit a disaster event as covid was yet you Tories don't like being reminded of the awful mess Johnson and his mob made of dealing with the pandemic
And don't give me this nonsense that you are a floating voter people come and go on here with that cobblers . You are a raving tory and your posts are evidence .
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Re: Immigration the last thing in the Tories' armour?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric Cartman
That's a very childish way of looking at running a country, surely it depends what you are spending it on.
I think he did end boom and bust because for the last 13 years we haven't seen any of the boom bit.
Saying 'a requirement for deeper austerity' implies it worked. It didn't, we never reached the surplus that they kept forecasting because growth was shite and so the debt pile just increased.
I think Bob probably had it right earlier in the thread about you.
Chancellor Alistair Darling was preparing for Austerity in 2010, the idea that you could borrow yourself into growth after borrowing eye watering amounts was far too risky. Had we gambled on borrowing more to grow the economy and it failed. We'd have probably needed an IMF intervention with eye watering Austerity needed.
Brown didn't end boom n bust. But that was his very very damaging belief that he repeatedly told everyone, including the City Of London.
Starmer won't be borrowing to grow the economy either, he's hamstrung by past economic earth quakes. My estimate is it'll be pretty much more of the same but with loads of stifling woke stuff that doesn't cost anything.
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Re: Immigration the last thing in the Tories' armour?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
2008 was a huge event
Brown was praised for his handling of it , worldwide
It was every bit a disaster event as covid was yet you Tories don't like being reminded of the awful mess Johnson and his mob made of dealing with the pandemic
And don't give me this nonsense that you are a floating voter people come and go on here with that cobblers . You are a raving tory and your posts are evidence .
The current Conservative party aren't Conservative enough for me, they're largely centrists these days.
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Re: Immigration the last thing in the Tories' armour?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NinianOpinion1927
The current Conservative party aren't Conservative enough for me, they're largely centrists these days.
No shit Enoch
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Re: Immigration the last thing in the Tories' armour?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
No shit Enoch
Says the guy who was advocating the actions of the Nazis last week 😏 the current tory party is an
extension of Blairs labour party, commonly known as the WEF party, starter will also continue this.
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Re: Immigration the last thing in the Tories' armour?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Heathblue
Says the guy who was advocating the actions of the Nazis last week 😏 the current tory party is an
extension of Blairs labour party, commonly known as the WEF party, starter will also continue this.
When it comes to conspiracy idiots I would strangle them at birth
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Re: Immigration the last thing in the Tories' armour?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
When it comes to conspiracy idiots I would strangle them at birth
Being called a conspiracy theorest by a bloke who thinks that blokes can get pregnant 😂 shurrap ya big tart.
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Re: Immigration the last thing in the Tories' armour?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Heathblue
Being called a conspiracy theorest by a bloke who thinks that blokes can get pregnant 😂 shurrap ya big tart.
You must be confusing me with someone else you crazy lunatic
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Re: Immigration the last thing in the Tories' armour?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NinianOpinion1927
Ah ok. I don't think governments would want to brag about funding food banks because it's quite an emotive topic. So, best to leave it.
I'm interested now how the national lottery decide who recieves donations. I'd bet it's determined by the government in some way.
Personally, i think food banks are a good, efficient method of helping those who really need help. If the government were to do the same job directly, they'd undoubtedly spend more with loads of bureaucracy.
You're desperation to try and prove that voter in Hartlepool right is hilarious. I wonder what else the Government has done for us over the past thirteen years just out of the goodness of their own hearts that they're too embarrassed to tell us about?
Also, after your admission that "The current Conservative party aren't Conservative enough for me, they're largely centrists these days.", I would have thought you would have been up in arms about the Government secretly funding food banks.
You're not the most convincing multi we've ever had on here.
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Re: Immigration the last thing in the Tories' armour?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
You're desperation to try and prove that voter in Hartlepool right is hilarious. I wonder what else the Government has done for us over the past thirteen years just out of the goodness of their own hearts that they're too embarrassed to tell us about?
Also, after your admission that "The current Conservative party aren't Conservative enough for me, they're largely centrists these days.", I would have thought you would have been up in arms about the Government secretly funding food banks.
You're not the most convincing multi we've ever had on here.
He’s a loon of the highest order. Absolutely raving mad.
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: Immigration the last thing in the Tories' armour?
seems like they're only managing to preach to the converted so farAttachment 5961
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: Immigration the last thing in the Tories' armour?
If we export armaments, then people hardly complain about importing refugeesAttachment 5968
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Re: Immigration the last thing in the Tories' armour?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
You're desperation to try and prove that voter in Hartlepool right is hilarious. I wonder what else the Government has done for us over the past thirteen years just out of the goodness of their own hearts that they're too embarrassed to tell us about?
Also, after your admission that "The current Conservative party aren't Conservative enough for me, they're largely centrists these days.", I would have thought you would have been up in arms about the Government secretly funding food banks.
You're not the most convincing multi we've ever had on here.
I don't believe the government are secretly funding food banks, that's not my belief or what i said in this thread. You know this, so why exaggerate and misrepresent my views when everybody can read what's been said?
Describing the increase in food banks as an "explosion" is more exaggeration. Calm down, you're not on PMQs. We're all City fans, just relax
As for calling me a multi, you're wrong again but aren't you the one who preaches "play the ball not the man"? Isn't calling me a "multi" playing the man not the ball?