Too much Gas

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Originally Posted by bobh

Godwin's Law has been triggered.
You lose the argument.

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Hasn’t Godwin said politics has gone to such shit that it doesn’t even work any more

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Originally Posted by William Treseder’s Mam

Hasn’t Godwin said politics has gone to such shit that it doesn’t even work any more

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Ironically, in any thread about Gas, Boyle's law still applies though.

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Originally Posted by jon1959

People voted for Brexit for a lot of reasons. I think the vast majority were influenced by their dislike of immigration and Polish plumbers, a feeling of alienation that they were persuaded was the fault of European bureaucratic elites (the tabloid press ran a 50 year campaign that to no one’s surprise worked) and a belief that the UK was subsidising others and the money could be better used at home (the NHS lie on Johnson’s bus).

But there were also a number of people on the left who voted Brexit in a re-run of the 1970s referendum. I know a lot who still think the EU is the EEC bosses club. I think they are wrong as do the majority of the labour movement who campaigned for Remain in 2016, but against joining in the 1970s. It is still a capitalist bloc but the social, environmental and employment protections that have been achieved (often by pan-European campaigns by civic and trade union groups) are worth holding onto.

In my opinion the main objective of the Leave campaign (not their voters) was to create a low regulation economy and an even more insecure and demoralised workforce, for the benefit of employers and shareholders. The Dennis Skinner’s of our world who voted Leave didn’t want that but made it more likely.

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It's called democracy

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Originally Posted by az city

The position the UK is in with regard to mitigating energy costs lies squarely with its government which has completely failed to plan and investment in a coherent energy strategy.

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Or maybe they planned for this very scenario?

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Originally Posted by life on mars

It's called democracy

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Is it true democracy when the billionaires who own the national newspapers are allowed to print complete lies and the politicians are allowed to parrot them with no consequence?

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Originally Posted by jon1959

I agree that Doucas has gone over a line a few times in this thread with language that cannot be justified, but please save us from the one eyed sanctimonious bollux that you and James specialise in.

You were happy to leave Goslow’s Grenfell candle burning on the site for weeks and you have no concern for racist, Nazi propaganda taking root. Not a squeak!

But if someone goes OTT in challenging your core conservative beliefs you get a touch of the vapours! Citizens Nephew is right. As is Splot Parker and Paul Evans. This is a thread that has focused on the selfish decisions of a generation with relative political and financial power - screwing the world for those that come after. Many of us on both sides of the argument are part of that generation and some of us share a sense of responsibility and shame.

And to repeat what others have said, Doucas is not wishing death on individuals of a certain age, but a generational change so that other values and priorities might come to the top. It will happen naturally. You don’t have to feel so personally offended by the prospect!

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Best post this year.

Reading this thread, I'll guess that JamesWails nuance radar is on the blip again or he's outraged by words which in reality mean phuck all in the bigger scheme of things.

Strange that a bloke who more or less demanded scrutiny and had a verbal pop over a 16 year old kid has a hissy fit over someone calling him nasty names.

What a phucking wuss!

Am I allowed to say that?

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Originally Posted by Jordi Culé

Reading this thread, I'll guess that JamesWails nuance radar is on the blip again or he's outraged by words which in reality mean phuck all in the bigger scheme of things.

Strange that a bloke who more or less demanded scrutiny and had a verbal pop over a 16 year old kid has a hissy fit over someone calling him nasty names.

What a phucking wuss!

Am I allowed to say that?

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'16yr old kid' ??? Who are we referring to here ?

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Originally Posted by John Buchanan

They do. They (we, or many of us) become more reflective and concerned about what they will eventually leave behind for the next generation. What impact, if any they and their peers have made on society. As evidenced (and misunderstood by some of the younger posters) on some of the posts I see on this forum.
But hey, we at least got to see Buchanan's 40 yard screamer and can occasionally celebrate going the whole night without getting up to have a wee.

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Speak for yourself :hehe:

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Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish

'16yr old kid' ??? Who are we referring to here ?

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Greta Thunberg, patsy for the Green Agenda, backed by a multi national to bring down our way of life as we know it.

She's quasi religious apparently.

He wasn't too fussed on being scrutinised himself then.

James is far too sensitive for a man who frequently not shy in calling others out.

Then hides behind his so called morals.

Phucking blouse.

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Originally Posted by Jordi Culé

Greta Thunberg, patsy for the Green Agenda, backed by a multi national to bring down our way of life as we know it.

She's quasi religious apparently.

He wasn't too fussed on being scrutinised himself then.

James is far too sensitive for a man who frequently not shy in calling others out.

Then hides behind his so called morals.

Phucking blouse.

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The way all those world leaders were drooling over her gooey eyed, was a bit creepy though.

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Originally Posted by Claude Blue

Best post this year.

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With out a doubt :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish

The way all those world leaders were drooling over her gooey eyed, was a bit creepy though.

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This is a bit weird to be honest, imagining that this happened.

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Originally Posted by life on mars

It's called democracy

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Brain washing & scaremongering & also downright lying is not democracy.

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Originally Posted by Jordi Culé

Greta Thunberg, patsy for the Green Agenda, backed by a multi national to bring down our way of life as we know it.

She's quasi religious apparently.

He wasn't too fussed on being scrutinised himself then.

James is far too sensitive for a man who frequently not shy in calling others out.

Then hides behind his so called morals.

Phucking blouse.

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I'm not sensitive, I just think casually making generalisations, wishing a generation to die out, calling people scum, nazis etc is not on. He is talking about people and their families, and people don't come on here to read that. This is a football messageboard, with a load of politics. It's normal to read that stuff and see it defended by others.

You, like others, are just inconsistent on that because you share (st least some of) his wider view...

...and his wider view is very left-wing, and thats fine. I'd expect most to have some agreement with his points (which I struggle to find much substance of beneath the abuse). It's not the argument, it's how he makes it and he never uses reason or data, it is always abuse and rhetoric.

A discussion on gas prices and he posts some utterly random utility bill from an unknown nordic country and then goes on to call people fascists and nazis and selfish scum.

That is not normal and not on and it is absolutely right it is called out. If others are okay with that kind of abuse and poison online then so be it, but you are only poisoning the well you also drink from

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Originally Posted by splott parker

Brain washing & scaremongering & also downright lying is not democracy.

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Both sides can be accused of that. We were told house prices would crash, there would be mass unemployment and the stock market would decline if we voted to leave. None of that happened. How many voted to remain based on that?

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Originally Posted by jon1959

I agree that Doucas has gone over a line a few times in this thread with language that cannot be justified, but please save us from the one eyed sanctimonious bollux that you and James specialise in.

You were happy to leave Goslow’s Grenfell candle burning on the site for weeks and you have no concern for racist, Nazi propaganda taking root. Not a squeak!

But if someone goes OTT in challenging your core conservative beliefs you get a touch of the vapours! Citizens Nephew is right. As is Splot Parker and Paul Evans. This is a thread that has focused on the selfish decisions of a generation with relative political and financial power - screwing the world for those that come after. Many of us on both sides of the argument are part of that generation and some of us share a sense of responsibility and shame.

And to repeat what others have said, Doucas is not wishing death on individuals of a certain age, but a generational change so that other values and priorities might come to the top. It will happen naturally. You don’t have to feel so personally offended by the prospect!

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1 - Agree. He has gone over the line a few times, and it's good he was called out on it and good to see others point this out too. You are right, some of his language cannot be justified.

2 - I'm not sure calling out online abuse is sanctimonious bollocks, given the impact it can have on people, but that's your opinion I guess.

3 - No idea what you are on about with Grenfell candles and especially not Nazi propaganda. You can't casually accuse people of that with absolutely no basis to what you are saying. I will criticise the German National Socialist Workers party (which ceased to exist 75 years ago) at every chance I can. Where has anyone ever defended them on here?

4 - Core conservative beliefs? What are they? This is a thread about gas prices. Not that it's your business but in the most recent council elections I voted one labour and one tory. What I am not is 'far left', but I do not have core conservative beliefs and I suspect I am far more liberal and open minded than you. I am a pragmatist and this thread was about that.

5 - The thread wasn't about the selfish decisions of a generation, it was about gas prices. Start up a second thread on that if you like, and hopefully you will all be able to listen to different views without resorting to insults. It would be an interesting thread, there was an article on the very topic in the SUnday Times yesterday. FWIW, I don't agree with the triple-lock pension and agree that too much wealth and power currently rests in land assets, owned disproportionately by the wealthy. You gonna share your lot a bit more?

6 - As I said, we know Doucas almost certainly doesn't mean this literally, but language does matter. You understand that when something is used against you or one of your beliefs, you just don't apply the same courtesy to others.

7 - I am personally offended when Doucas posts the bile he does. Partly because he does personally insult me (although his characterisations are absurd, and I was born in the 80s so it's merely another example of something he is wrong about) but also he insults people I care about.

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Originally Posted by William Treseder’s Mam

Is it true democracy when the billionaires who own the national newspapers are allowed to print complete lies and the politicians are allowed to parrot them with no consequence?

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I'm not sure what media outlets you refer to but it was fairly recognised the big players were remain and project fear was a thing , both sides spouted untruths that's politics, we would still be in Europe if Mr Corbyn had shown some enthusiasm , truth ,swallowed his pride and truly engaged with the remain arguments..and campaign.. once ideological gets in Labour's way ..

A far left poster v a far right poster and this is what you get.😂😂😂

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

1 - Agree. He has gone over the line a few times, and it's good he was called out on it and good to see others point this out too. You are right, some of his language cannot be justified.

2 - I'm not sure calling out online abuse is sanctimonious bollocks, given the impact it can have on people, but that's your opinion I guess.

3 - No idea what you are on about with Grenfell candles and especially not Nazi propaganda. You can't casually accuse people of that with absolutely no basis to what you are saying. I will criticise the German National Socialist Workers party (which ceased to exist 75 years ago) at every chance I can. Where has anyone ever defended them on here?

4 - Core conservative beliefs? What are they? This is a thread about gas prices. Not that it's your business but in the most recent council elections I voted one labour and one tory. What I am not is 'far left', but I do not have core conservative beliefs and I suspect I am far more liberal and open minded than you. I am a pragmatist and this thread was about that.

5 - The thread wasn't about the selfish decisions of a generation, it was about gas prices. Start up a second thread on that if you like, and hopefully you will all be able to listen to different views without resorting to insults. It would be an interesting thread, there was an article on the very topic in the SUnday Times yesterday. FWIW, I don't agree with the triple-lock pension and agree that too much wealth and power currently rests in land assets, owned disproportionately by the wealthy. You gonna share your lot a bit more?

6 - As I said, we know Doucas almost certainly doesn't mean this literally, but language does matter. You understand that when something is used against you or one of your beliefs, you just don't apply the same courtesy to others.

7 - I am personally offended when Doucas posts the bile he does. Partly because he does personally insult me (although his characterisations are absurd, and I was born in the 80s so it's merely another example of something he is wrong about) but also he insults people I care about.

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If you don't support thier beliefs your a Tory, refrain from other view's challenged critising or your a red faced gammon and will be met by vile language and personal attacks ,welcome to he nasty side of socialism.. and alleged freedom of speech.

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Originally Posted by life on mars

It's called democracy

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It's called power.

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Originally Posted by life on mars

If you don't support thier beliefs your a Tory, refrain from other view's challenged critising or your a red faced gammon and will be met by vile language and personal attacks ,welcome to he nasty side of socialism.. and alleged freedom of speech.

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Unfortunately so with some.

Although you'll be lucky if it's just a Tory you are called. I have literallly been accused of defending fascism at every turn in this thread.

Jesus, it's like a Little Britain sketch or something out of viz.

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Originally Posted by life on mars

I'm not sure what media outlets you refer to but it was fairly recognised the big players were remain and project fear was a thing , both sides spouted untruths that's politics, we would still be in Europe if Mr Corbyn had shown some enthusiasm , truth ,swallowed his pride and truly engaged with the remain arguments..and campaign.. once ideological gets in Labour's way ..

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Daily mail, express, telegraph, the times, the sun. You know the media who pick the winners of every election and the widest circulated and most read newspapers in the country owned by billionaires who didn’t want the EU’s more fair tax laws.

I can’t believe anyone is still calling it project fear either. Anything from it in particular that isn’t true?

I’m still waiting for project complete bollocks to come true other than billionaires finding it easier to dodge tax.

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Originally Posted by William Treseder’s Mam

Daily mail, express, telegraph, the times, the sun. You know the media who pick the winners of every election and the widest circulated and most read newspapers in the country owned by billionaires who didn’t want the EU’s more fair tax laws.

I can’t believe anyone is still calling it project fear either. Anything from it in particular that isn’t true?

I’m still waiting for project complete bollocks to come true other than billionaires finding it easier to dodge tax.

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How many of Blair’s three election wins saw Labour endorsed by the Murdoch press? At least two of them I’m sure.

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Originally Posted by William Treseder’s Mam

Daily mail, express, telegraph, the times, the sun. You know the media who pick the winners of every election and the widest circulated and most read newspapers in the country owned by billionaires who didn’t want the EU’s more fair tax laws.

I can’t believe anyone is still calling it project fear either. Anything from it in particular that isn’t true?

I’m still waiting for project complete bollocks to come true other than billionaires finding it easier to dodge tax.

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Here's an article on the Daily Mail website urging people to vote Remain: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...R-Britain.html

It's called project fear, because stuff they predicted would happen, ya know...didn't happen. https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...b00006e9aed9f1

What fairer tax laws are you talking about?

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

How many of Blair’s three election wins saw Labour endorsed by the Murdoch press? At least two of them I’m sure.

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Yep, The Sun backed Labour in 1997, 2001 and 2005.

In 2001, The Express and Times also backed Labour, in 2005 The Times did so again.

All switched to Tory by 2010. Only the Mirror backed Labour then.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_U...n#Endorsements

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Both sides can be accused of that. We were told house prices would crash, there would be mass unemployment and the stock market would decline if we voted to leave. None of that happened. How many voted to remain based on that?

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Just wait a while, Jimbo. All three are coming soon to Plague Island.

And where are your beloved Tory buddies in all this? Having a six week garden party to decide which no-mark will become their new lame duck.

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Originally Posted by Doucas

Not just brexit, the older right wingers on here simply don't give a toss about climate change. I and many others my age aren't having kids because we're terrified of the hell hole we'll be bringing them into, we simply aren't taking the action that's needed. The gammon on here believe conspiracy sites made by people without science GCSEs over the overwhelming scientic peer reviewed consesus, it's ****ing crazy.

It's like the older right wing tories are hell bent on making every single thing worse for younger people and they just cannot see it. They can never answer why other countries are doing far far better than us on basically every metric. Can't even move away because they took away that right.

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Totally wrong again, why would old right wingers believe conspiracy theories ?

That's youngsters and lefty antivaxers?

I've told you before stop moaning that you can't afford a kid, 50% don't care and 50% are glad you're having a tough time!

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Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue

Totally wrong again, why would old right wingers believe conspiracy theories ?

That's youngsters and lefty antivaxers?

I've told you before stop moaning that you can't afford a kid, 50% don't care and 50% are glad you're having a tough time!

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That's not very kind.

It reported on social media that Ukraine’s forces have “breached” Russian’s lines around occupied Kherson.

"The first line of Russian defences on the Kherson front has been breached,” Sergey Khlan, an aide to the ousted Ukrainian head of the Kherson region""

This has to be won Russian must never again hold the West to ransom ..

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

You really are the most repulsive and ignorant poster on here. Nearly everything you have written above is incorrect. If you work for a charity, that really is quite something.

You should be kicked off here for the endless bile you post.

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Ignore him, he talks nonsense everyone knows it, he must know it himself deep down.

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Originally Posted by Citizen's Nephew

That's not very kind.

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Well it's nothing really he wishes everyone over 50 would hurry up and die!

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Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue

Well it's nothing really he wishes everyone over 50 would hurry up and die!

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Be the bigger person mate.

Dear Moderator: Is this the right place for this thread? Asking for a friend.

This place is moderated? Good one.

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Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue

Totally wrong again, why would old right wingers believe conspiracy theories ?

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If I were to look back on my social media timeline, I reckon that the majority of friends that I have who were the most ardent supporters of Brexit were also those most likely to stick two fingers up to Covid lockdown and were first to share any Covid conspiracy bollocks. They are also most likely to think of global warming as a conspiracy. I don't necessarily call them right wing, but most would have voted UKIP and tend to trash Labour.

I've wondered if it's simply being dismissive of experts? In all of these issues, experts suggested they were all going to be bad things. This seems to have extended into being dismissive of facts as long as they suit.

I've never heard of antivaxers being called lefty. If anything, most antivaxers I know were the type of people I've mentioned above, that know more than the experts, don't trust experts etc. Most on the left tend to listen to what experts have to say. It's why this government tried to dress up its twitter account during the last election as a factcheck UK account.

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Originally Posted by Citizen's Nephew

Dear Moderator: Is this the right place for this thread? Asking for a friend.

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Is it just this thread that bothers you? Because i can see loads of other non football threads

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

I'm not sensitive, I just think casually making generalisations, wishing a generation to die out, calling people scum, nazis etc is not on. He is talking about people and their families, and people don't come on here to read that. This is a football messageboard, with a load of politics. It's normal to read that stuff and see it defended by others.

You, like others, are just inconsistent on that because you share (st least some of) his wider view...

...and his wider view is very left-wing, and thats fine. I'd expect most to have some agreement with his points (which I struggle to find much substance of beneath the abuse). It's not the argument, it's how he makes it and he never uses reason or data, it is always abuse and rhetoric.

A discussion on gas prices and he posts some utterly random utility bill from an unknown nordic country and then goes on to call people fascists and nazis and selfish scum.

That is not normal and not on and it is absolutely right it is called out. If others are okay with that kind of abuse and poison online then so be it, but you are only poisoning the well you also drink from

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Stop crying you big wuss.

You're quite happy dishing it out but don't like one or two things thrown back at you.

You're then squealing like the classroom snitch wanting people banned.

Here's a thought, message whoever wished death on you and call him out personally? Go direct to source as it were.

You're the most sanctimonious phucker on here which you try to hide behind a veil of supposed morals.

I'd still buy you a beer mind as I'm good like that.

Right I'm going back to my Bank Holiday boozing.

Peace.

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

If I were to look back on my social media timeline, I reckon that the majority of friends that I have who were the most ardent supporters of Brexit were also those most likely to stick two fingers up to Covid lockdown and were first to share any Covid conspiracy bollocks. They are also most likely to think of global warming as a conspiracy. I don't necessarily call them right wing, but most would have voted UKIP and tend to trash Labour.

I've wondered if it's simply being dismissive of experts? In all of these issues, experts suggested they were all going to be bad things. This seems to have extended into being dismissive of facts as long as they suit.

I've never heard of antivaxers being called lefty. If anything, most antivaxers I know were the type of people I've mentioned above, that know more than the experts, don't trust experts etc. Most on the left tend to listen to what experts have to say. It's why this government tried to dress up its twitter account during the last election as a factcheck UK account.

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The antivax movement really does span the political spectrum. Probably the most famous of the lot of Piers Corbyn who is of course very left-wing.

Am wary of the whole 'trust the experts' thing, as experts are typically only experts in their field, for example in reducing the virus, but not in taking account of other factors and how that may hit the wider health service or society more generally. An expert in car breaking systems in that sense is different to an expert in virus management. You can fix a cars breaks and the whole thing works better, but in 'fixing' a virus, it's possible you cause great damage elsewhere in society.

I think we will see a growing body of people (and experts) question the expertise of the time.

Personally, I don't doubt that the first lockdown was the right thing to do, I'm less convinced on subsequent ones.

In terms of more generally being dismissive of experts, I don't think it's a Labour or Tory thing. Both will want to find the experts that suit their view and the internet is very handy in allowing people to do that.

What I do think is important, rather than blind trust in experts, or perhaps alongside that, is to go back and scrutinise how accurate they proved to be. That process will probably demonstrate a healthy degree of scepticism is right

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Originally Posted by Doucas

Not just brexit, the older right wingers on here simply don't give a toss about climate change. I and many others my age aren't having kids because we're terrified of the hell hole we'll be bringing them into, we simply aren't taking the action that's needed. The gammon on here believe conspiracy sites made by people without science GCSEs over the overwhelming scientic peer reviewed consesus, it's ****ing crazy.

It's like the older right wing tories are hell bent on making every single thing worse for younger people and they just cannot see it. They can never answer why other countries are doing far far better than us on basically every metric. Can't even move away because they took away that right.

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You lose either way, cos climate regulations will mean the end of abundance, living smaller, and eating bugs. Your kids will never experience what you did, e.g. fulfilling jobs, home ownership, quality leisure time, freedom to travel, etc. Instead they will be digitally monitored, and their digital money will be turned off if they are not compliant citizens. One man's utopia is another man's hell hole.