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Thread: Has 20mph made our roads safer?

  1. #76
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    Re: Has 20mph made our roads safer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    I don't agree on your last point. Even people on phones, drink drivres etc are less likely to crash at 20mph than they are at 30 or 40 and importantly when they 20 crash the outcomes are far less severe.
    They are more likely to be on the phone or doing emails, I could post on here at 20mph going down Caerphilly Road.

  2. #77
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    Re: Has 20mph made our roads safer?

    Quote Originally Posted by splott parker View Post
    Laughable. Youíve obviously been living abroad for the last 14 years
    Spending plenty of it away when possible

    He was a disaster for Wales !

  3. #78

    Re: Has 20mph made our roads safer?

    Quote Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue View Post
    Spending plenty of it away when possible

    He was a disaster for Wales !
    Page?

  4. #79

    Re: Has 20mph made our roads safer?

    Quote Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue View Post
    They are more likely to be on the phone or doing emails, I could post on here at 20mph going down Caerphilly Road.
    that doesn't change the fact that every single place this has been introduced it has led to less people dying in horrible accidents

  5. #80
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    Re: Has 20mph made our roads safer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    Page?
    Aye, but better than Drippy was for the Country

  6. #81

    Re: Has 20mph made our roads safer?

    Quote Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue View Post
    Aye, but better than Drippy was for the Country
    what does that say about the quality of the opposition in Wales?
    the Tories are a total waste of time in Wales

  7. #82
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    Re: Has 20mph made our roads safer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    what does that say about the quality of the opposition in Wales?
    the Tories are a total waste of time in Wales
    Definitely they are a mess too!

  8. #83

    Re: Has 20mph made our roads safer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    that doesn't change the fact that every single place this has been introduced it has led to less people dying in horrible accidents
    Are you in favour of a blanket 20mph approach, even on arterial roads not in built up areas where there aren't any history of accidents, or would you be happy to see these roads revert back to 30mph, safe in the knowledge this would be very unlikely to make any real difference to accident stats?

  9. #84
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    Re: Has 20mph made our roads safer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    Are you in favour of a blanket 20mph approach, even on arterial roads not in built up areas where there aren't any history of accidents, or would you be happy to see these roads revert back to 30mph, safe in the knowledge this would be very unlikely to make any real difference to accident stats?
    He obviously doesn't drive around much, and is a bit anti-car, "not in my street" and was happy for the cameras booking people for driving through Crystal Glen.

  10. #85

    Re: Has 20mph made our roads safer?

    Yes is the answer.

  11. #86

    Re: Has 20mph made our roads safer?

    I've decided to spend half an hour of a lovely Saturday evening looking at some of the stats according to StatsWales. Just looking at accidents at 20 or 30mph that have resulted in either serious injuries or fatalities according to quarters of the year since 2021.

    Jan-Mar has always been the quarter with the fewest of those types of accidents, followed by Apr-Jun. In 2021 and 2023 Jul-Sep resulted in the greatest number of those accidents; in 2022 the quarter with the most was Oct-Dec.

    Overall, the number of accidents at 20 or 30mph resulting in fatalities or serious injury rose year on year from 2021 to 2023 but there is a slight difference between the rise in the number of casualties and the number of accidents and a few discrepancies. In 2021 we all know there were less journeys made as lockdown was ending and people were still often working from home.

    Jan-Mar:

    2021-2022: 16.5% rise in the number of casualties
    2022-2023: 2% rise

    Apr-Jun:

    2021-2022: 1.8% rise
    2022-2023: 7.9% rise

    Jul-Sep:

    2021-2022: 6.2% fall
    2022-2023: 24% rise

    Oct-Dec:

    2021-2022: 1.6% rise
    2022-2023: 12.4% fall

    Those are the overall casualty stats for serious injuries and fatalities. It should be noted that the number of accidents with serious injuries fell between Jan-Mar 2022-2023 (1.1%), Apr-Jun 2021-2022 (6.1%), Jul-Sep 2021-2022 (9.6%) and Oct-Dec 2022-2023 (10.9%).

    In 2022 there were fewer accidents resulting in serious injuries than in 2021, but 3 more people were seriously injured and 7 more were killed. In 2023 there were 24 more casualties than in 2022 but only 14 more accidents. Year on year there has been a very marginal increase in the number of people being injured or killed in accidents. In 2021 there were 19 accidents resulting in 23 fatalities, whereas in 2023 there were 22 accidents resulting in 33 fatalities.

    Overall, I think just using a comparison between Oct-Dec in 2022 and 2023 is a bit misleading at the moment. Others have said that we need a year and more of stats before drawing to any conclusions. Fatality figures are so low that they can be skewed. With overall figures for each quarter in the early 100s, a handful more or less of accidents makes a big difference to the figures, but in reality, means only perhaps a drop of one accident a week, which may or may not be down to a change in speed limits where we won't know what speed was being driven at time of impact.

    One thing I've noticed, ROSPA have said a reduction to 20mph has been successful in reducing accidents by over 40% and child and young person fatalites by over half. None of that has come close to happening and certainly won't.

  12. #87

    Re: Has 20mph made our roads safer?

    Has anyone changed their minds on this subject, now it’s been in for nine months?

  13. #88

    Re: Has 20mph made our roads safer?

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Has anyone changed their minds on this subject, now it’s been in for nine months?
    The Welsh Government!

    https://www.driving.org/welsh-govern...h/#:~:text=The Welsh Government plans to,roads starting in September 2024.

  14. #89

    Re: Has 20mph made our roads safer?

    There are definitely areas where I'm driving that 30mph should be put back in place. I'm on the road everyday. Virtually all the changes in the RCT area I don't really have a problem with. Saying that I'm mostly doing 25 so maybe I'm wrong.

    That's not the case in areas in Cardiff or Swansea where there's plenty of roads which no way should be 20.

    The crazy thing is the dumb feckers have been vandalising 20mph in housing estates where 20mph is fast enough.

  15. #90

    Re: Has 20mph made our roads safer?

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Has anyone changed their minds on this subject, now it’s been in for nine months?
    Not in the slightest. However, like virtually every subject that divides opinion on the internet, some people only see things in black or white, one thing or the other, no middle ground or grey area.

    Some people think that, by opposing a blanket approach to changing virtually all 30mph limits to 20, that I oppose 20mph limits. That's simply not true and, I might be guessing here, but I don't know anyone who has objections to 20mph speed limits around schools, playgrounds, housing estates etc.

    For me the issue has always been about arterial roads. In some parts of the country it's possible to be on quicker roads relatively soon after leaving home. In other areas, such as the valleys, the only options for travel are these roads, sometimes several miles at a time. For all the talk of just adding a minute to everyone's journeys, that's clearly a nonsense for some people, who could spend a couple more days a year behind the wheel of a car because of the slower speed limits (10 extra minutes a day over 300 days a year is over 48 hours).

    I will continue to object to 20mph limits on roads where there is clearly no reason for this, such as in areas where there are few or no houses. 40 mph limits still exist in many areas like this and were never changed, yet similar roads in 30mph areas have been changed. For everyone who shouts about road safety and being happy if it saves just one person, none of them ever give a reason why the sorts of roads I've mentioned shouldn't revert back to 30mph.

    As with some believing opposing the 20mph limits means complete opposition to all 20mph limits, I also think those also believe that those against a blanket approach are happy to mow down pedestrians and have little regard for those seriously injured. That is not true as well. Condescending remarks like "I hope it's not your kid run over" do nothing to help and demonstrates little knowledge or thinking about the situation. Most of us know of roads where 20mph limits are totally proposterous. If the data comparing the last quarter of 2022 with 2023 is as a result of speed limit changes, it's done no more than save one bad accident in Wales per week, yet lots of us are trundling around quite safely and, as I've said before, well over 99.999% of journeys at 30mph are completed totally safely. There's probably more chance of winning a decent prize on lotto than being involved in a bad accident at 30mph or slower. Roads will never be a totally safe place for others, but education on road safety is very important. Like I've said, lots of accidents are caused by either a driver or someone else being at fault.

    Lastly, one of the biggest frustrations at the new speed limits are the utter arseholes who drive at 15, 16, 17 mph, or continue at a mere 20mph when the speed limit changes. There's a 50mph road near me and I've seen drivers doing barely more than 20 on it. I enjoy driving and I very rarely don't know what a speed limit is. How people don't notice signposts etc is beyond me.

  16. #91

    Re: Has 20mph made our roads safer?

    No .

    Id like to know how many ederly have suffered ir fallen ill due to carers being caught in slow traffic and missing thier care slot . .

  17. #92

    Re: Has 20mph made our roads safer?

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    No .

    Id like to know how many ederly have suffered ir fallen ill due to carers being caught in slow traffic and missing thier care slot . .
    ill take a guess at "not many"

  18. #93

    Re: Has 20mph made our roads safer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dembe View Post
    ill take a guess at "not many"
    If you say so , if you slow roads ,you slow appointments.

    Theres no proof it reduces accidents or pollution all it does it is slow down critically needed tasks .

    Think the petition and WAG row back supports the fact it was a dreadful waste of money .

    Perhaps more ambulances and crews would have been a better option to spend thier money on ,not some form of law change that could never be enforced and cost millions of tax payers money

    God Wales is like a fecking retirement home .

    Pathetic.

  19. #94

    Re: Has 20mph made our roads safer?

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    If you say so , if you slow roads ,you slow appointments.

    Theres no proof it reduces accidents or pollution all it does it is slow down critically needed tasks .

    Think the petition and WAG row back supports the fact it was a dreadful waste of money .

    Perhaps more ambulances and crews would have been a better option to spend thier money on ,not some form of law change that could never be enforced and cost millions of tax payers money

    God Wales is like a fecking retirement home .

    Pathetic.
    Ambulance waiting times are 10 hours because the paramedics that take people in have to stay with them until they are signed into the hospital. Until the hospital find room for them, or sign them over, they are the responsibility of the paramedic staff that take them in.
    If you buy more ambulances and fund more paramedics you'll just have more ambulances sat outside A+E

    Not sure what 30-20mph has to do with this.

    As you were curious on the numbers, I had a guess, I don't think that many people died as a result of road speed changes, it's an utter guess as I have absolutely no idea.

  20. #95

    Re: Has 20mph made our roads safer?

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    No .

    Id like to know how many ederly have suffered ir fallen ill due to carers being caught in slow traffic and missing thier care slot . .
    More to do with the waiting lists than any other issue.

  21. #96

    Re: Has 20mph made our roads safer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    that doesn't change the fact that every single place this has been introduced it has led to less people dying in horrible accidents
    So, lets get it down to 10mph .
    By your logic that has to be safer and better than 20mph?

  22. #97

    Re: Has 20mph made our roads safer?

    I can see both sides of the argument but for the life of me can't see why anyone is getting particularly angry.

    Was in Odisha, India, recently and built up areas in Bhubaneswar are 20KPM.

    I am a driver, some of the road I drive on regularly have been 20 for a long time. Some of Pen-Y-Lan road now being 20 is the least of my worries as the local authority has decided to to completely mess up the turn onto Colchester Avenue - the right hand turn is so disconcerting for oncoming traffic it causes a lot of anxiety for drivers who don't often drive there.

    Surely we will end with with a few roads reverting to 30 but built up areas where there are schools etc, remaining at 20, which I think is sensible.

    But in these polarised days nuanced opinions are sadly becoming extinct. I feel I need to pick a side and defend it and get angry with anyone who disagrees with me.

  23. #98
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    Re: Has 20mph made our roads safer?

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Has anyone changed their minds on this subject, now itís been in for nine months?
    Definitely not and I'm not just taking a side, it's utter nonsense how anyone can defend it is beyond me.

    As it was 20 near schools double parked cars etc, not every road going.

  24. #99

    Re: Has 20mph made our roads safer?

    Quote Originally Posted by AfricanBluebird View Post
    Surely we will end with with a few roads reverting to 30 but built up areas where there are schools etc, remaining at 20, which I think is sensible.
    And I don't see anyone arguing to the contrary.

    The biggest issue for me (at least) and one I see others repeating are those roads where 20mph is totally unnecessary.

  25. #100

    Re: Has 20mph made our roads safer?

    Quote Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue View Post
    Definitely not and I'm not just taking a side, it's utter nonsense how anyone can defend it is beyond me.

    As it was 20 near schools double parked cars etc, not every road going.
    The road through Hopkinstown linking Pontypridd with the Rhondda is an arterial road. It was changed to 20mph then quickly changed back to 30mph, presumably as it's a busy link road and the only road from Ponty to the lower Rhondda valleys.

    If that road is ok to drive at 30mph, can anyone tell me why other similar arterial roads should be 20 instead? It makes a mockery of the whole thing.

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