Has 20mph made our roads safer?

[North Cardiff Blue]

Re: Has 20mph made our roads safer?

I don't agree on your last point. Even people on phones, drink drivres etc are less likely to crash at 20mph than they are at 30 or 40 and importantly when they 20 crash the outcomes are far less severe.

They are more likely to be on the phone or doing emails, I could post on here at 20mph going down Caerphilly Road.

[North Cardiff Blue]

Re: Has 20mph made our roads safer?

Laughable. You’ve obviously been living abroad for the last 14 years:hehe:

Spending plenty of it away when possible :hehe:

He was a disaster for Wales !

[Rjk]

Re: Has 20mph made our roads safer?

Spending plenty of it away when possible :hehe:

He was a disaster for Wales !

Page?

[Rjk]

Re: Has 20mph made our roads safer?

They are more likely to be on the phone or doing emails, I could post on here at 20mph going down Caerphilly Road.

that doesn't change the fact that every single place this has been introduced it has led to less people dying in horrible accidents

[North Cardiff Blue]

Re: Has 20mph made our roads safer?

Page?

:hehe: Aye, but better than Drippy was for the Country :thumbup:

[Rjk]

Re: Has 20mph made our roads safer?

:hehe: Aye, but better than Drippy was for the Country :thumbup:

what does that say about the quality of the opposition in Wales?
the Tories are a total waste of time in Wales

[North Cardiff Blue]

Re: Has 20mph made our roads safer?

what does that say about the quality of the opposition in Wales?
the Tories are a total waste of time in Wales

Definitely they are a mess too!

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Re: Has 20mph made our roads safer?

that doesn't change the fact that every single place this has been introduced it has led to less people dying in horrible accidents

Are you in favour of a blanket 20mph approach, even on arterial roads not in built up areas where there aren't any history of accidents, or would you be happy to see these roads revert back to 30mph, safe in the knowledge this would be very unlikely to make any real difference to accident stats?

[North Cardiff Blue]

Re: Has 20mph made our roads safer?

Are you in favour of a blanket 20mph approach, even on arterial roads not in built up areas where there aren't any history of accidents, or would you be happy to see these roads revert back to 30mph, safe in the knowledge this would be very unlikely to make any real difference to accident stats?

He obviously doesn't drive around much, and is a bit anti-car, "not in my street" and was happy for the cameras booking people for driving through Crystal Glen.

[Hilts]

Re: Has 20mph made our roads safer?

Yes is the answer.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Re: Has 20mph made our roads safer?

I've decided to spend half an hour of a lovely Saturday evening looking at some of the stats according to StatsWales. Just looking at accidents at 20 or 30mph that have resulted in either serious injuries or fatalities according to quarters of the year since 2021.

Jan-Mar has always been the quarter with the fewest of those types of accidents, followed by Apr-Jun. In 2021 and 2023 Jul-Sep resulted in the greatest number of those accidents; in 2022 the quarter with the most was Oct-Dec.

Overall, the number of accidents at 20 or 30mph resulting in fatalities or serious injury rose year on year from 2021 to 2023 but there is a slight difference between the rise in the number of casualties and the number of accidents and a few discrepancies. In 2021 we all know there were less journeys made as lockdown was ending and people were still often working from home.

Jan-Mar:

2021-2022: 16.5% rise in the number of casualties
2022-2023: 2% rise

Apr-Jun:

2021-2022: 1.8% rise
2022-2023: 7.9% rise

Jul-Sep:

2021-2022: 6.2% fall
2022-2023: 24% rise

Oct-Dec:

2021-2022: 1.6% rise
2022-2023: 12.4% fall

Those are the overall casualty stats for serious injuries and fatalities. It should be noted that the number of accidents with serious injuries fell between Jan-Mar 2022-2023 (1.1%), Apr-Jun 2021-2022 (6.1%), Jul-Sep 2021-2022 (9.6%) and Oct-Dec 2022-2023 (10.9%).

In 2022 there were fewer accidents resulting in serious injuries than in 2021, but 3 more people were seriously injured and 7 more were killed. In 2023 there were 24 more casualties than in 2022 but only 14 more accidents. Year on year there has been a very marginal increase in the number of people being injured or killed in accidents. In 2021 there were 19 accidents resulting in 23 fatalities, whereas in 2023 there were 22 accidents resulting in 33 fatalities.

Overall, I think just using a comparison between Oct-Dec in 2022 and 2023 is a bit misleading at the moment. Others have said that we need a year and more of stats before drawing to any conclusions. Fatality figures are so low that they can be skewed. With overall figures for each quarter in the early 100s, a handful more or less of accidents makes a big difference to the figures, but in reality, means only perhaps a drop of one accident a week, which may or may not be down to a change in speed limits where we won't know what speed was being driven at time of impact.

One thing I've noticed, ROSPA have said a reduction to 20mph has been successful in reducing accidents by over 40% and child and young person fatalites by over half. None of that has come close to happening and certainly won't.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Has 20mph made our roads safer?

Has anyone changed their minds on this subject, now it’s been in for nine months?

[JamesWales]

Re: Has 20mph made our roads safer?

Has anyone changed their minds on this subject, now it’s been in for nine months?

The Welsh Government!

https://www.driving.org/welsh-govern...h/#:~:text=The Welsh Government plans to,roads starting in September 2024.

[Hilts]

Re: Has 20mph made our roads safer?

There are definitely areas where I'm driving that 30mph should be put back in place. I'm on the road everyday. Virtually all the changes in the RCT area I don't really have a problem with. Saying that I'm mostly doing 25 so maybe I'm wrong.

That's not the case in areas in Cardiff or Swansea where there's plenty of roads which no way should be 20.

The crazy thing is the dumb feckers have been vandalising 20mph in housing estates where 20mph is fast enough.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Re: Has 20mph made our roads safer?

Has anyone changed their minds on this subject, now it’s been in for nine months?

Not in the slightest. However, like virtually every subject that divides opinion on the internet, some people only see things in black or white, one thing or the other, no middle ground or grey area.

Some people think that, by opposing a blanket approach to changing virtually all 30mph limits to 20, that I oppose 20mph limits. That's simply not true and, I might be guessing here, but I don't know anyone who has objections to 20mph speed limits around schools, playgrounds, housing estates etc.

For me the issue has always been about arterial roads. In some parts of the country it's possible to be on quicker roads relatively soon after leaving home. In other areas, such as the valleys, the only options for travel are these roads, sometimes several miles at a time. For all the talk of just adding a minute to everyone's journeys, that's clearly a nonsense for some people, who could spend a couple more days a year behind the wheel of a car because of the slower speed limits (10 extra minutes a day over 300 days a year is over 48 hours).

I will continue to object to 20mph limits on roads where there is clearly no reason for this, such as in areas where there are few or no houses. 40 mph limits still exist in many areas like this and were never changed, yet similar roads in 30mph areas have been changed. For everyone who shouts about road safety and being happy if it saves just one person, none of them ever give a reason why the sorts of roads I've mentioned shouldn't revert back to 30mph.

As with some believing opposing the 20mph limits means complete opposition to all 20mph limits, I also think those also believe that those against a blanket approach are happy to mow down pedestrians and have little regard for those seriously injured. That is not true as well. Condescending remarks like "I hope it's not your kid run over" do nothing to help and demonstrates little knowledge or thinking about the situation. Most of us know of roads where 20mph limits are totally proposterous. If the data comparing the last quarter of 2022 with 2023 is as a result of speed limit changes, it's done no more than save one bad accident in Wales per week, yet lots of us are trundling around quite safely and, as I've said before, well over 99.999% of journeys at 30mph are completed totally safely. There's probably more chance of winning a decent prize on lotto than being involved in a bad accident at 30mph or slower. Roads will never be a totally safe place for others, but education on road safety is very important. Like I've said, lots of accidents are caused by either a driver or someone else being at fault.

Lastly, one of the biggest frustrations at the new speed limits are the utter arseholes who drive at 15, 16, 17 mph, or continue at a mere 20mph when the speed limit changes. There's a 50mph road near me and I've seen drivers doing barely more than 20 on it. I enjoy driving and I very rarely don't know what a speed limit is. How people don't notice signposts etc is beyond me.