The negativity on this board

[Bothroyd's Diving Coach]

I'll be honest I guess my feelings were misplaced when I thought I'd log on here this morning to see a couple of positive threads about the team but all I can see is negativity?
We have a brand new manager, who lets face it has inherited a confidence ridden squad who have had a dire (and partly successful I will concede) brand of football drummed into them over 3 years... did anybody expect that over 2 games in charge, we would become Manchester City?


I was there last night so under no illusions of how poor the quality was from both sides last night, but missing our best midfielder, captain and a player I think will flourish in this system (Whyte) I think we are showing signs of at least something positive, and thought we looked a lot more solid at the back last night.


All I can see are posts that carry bitterness with them as people can't seem to get behind Harris as he wasn't the first choice appointment for everybody (I get that), but for Christ sake let's get behind everyone and give the manager a chance to at least change things in stead of waiting 2 games?


Not a post saying people aren't allowed to criticise as like I've conceded there wasn't a lot of quality last night, just that I think we should be getting behind the boys. Let's face it, the atmosphere was crap last night (even in the first 10 minutes, when I thought we were pretty decent!). Anyway, hope the boys can continue to pick up points and it will only build confidence in the squad

[Cyclops]

I was there, fully prepared 'to get behind the boys', but after the first eleven minutes there was little to get behind. One would expect a new manager bounce, but despite the four points, the team has looked flat for 75% of the two games in his charge. I therefore question his inspirational powers - but hope to be proved wrong.

I had no pre-conceived thoughts about Harris before he came. But I was disappointed with the quality of names in the frame before the appointment. Did Warnock recommend him?

The recent performances have been so poor that even Warnock walked, obviously believing he couldn't get this lot back up.

It's going to take investment to get the team back to a good level, but the signs are that Tan will be cautious and spending may even be prohibited.

I think this is going to be a long hard season to watch.

[Baloo]

I've quite enjoyed the two games under Harris so far for different reasons.

[dembethewarrior]

I was there, fully prepared 'to get behind the boys', but after the first eleven minutes there was little to get behind. One would expect a new manager bounce, but despite the four points, the team has looked flat for 75% of the two games in his charge. I therefore question his inspirational powers - but hope to be proved wrong.

I had no pre-conceived thoughts about Harris before he came. But I was disappointed with the quality of names in the frame before the appointment. Did Warnock recommend him?

The recent performances have been so poor that even Warnock walked, obviously believing he couldn't get this lot back up.

It's going to take investment to get the team back to a good level, but the signs are that Tan will be cautious and spending may even be prohibited.

I think this is going to be a long hard season to watch.

So you’re saying you gave them 11 minutes

[dml1954]

I'll be honest I guess my feelings were misplaced when I thought I'd log on here this morning to see a couple of positive threads about the team but all I can see is negativity?
We have a brand new manager, who lets face it has inherited a confidence ridden squad who have had a dire (and partly successful I will concede) brand of football drummed into them over 3 years... did anybody expect that over 2 games in charge, we would become Manchester City?


I was there last night so under no illusions of how poor the quality was from both sides last night, but missing our best midfielder, captain and a player I think will flourish in this system (Whyte) I think we are showing signs of at least something positive, and thought we looked a lot more solid at the back last night.


All I can see are posts that carry bitterness with them as people can't seem to get behind Harris as he wasn't the first choice appointment for everybody (I get that), but for Christ sake let's get behind everyone and give the manager a chance to at least change things in stead of waiting 2 games?


Not a post saying people aren't allowed to criticise as like I've conceded there wasn't a lot of quality last night, just that I think we should be getting behind the boys. Let's face it, the atmosphere was crap last night (even in the first 10 minutes, when I thought we were pretty decent!). Anyway, hope the boys can continue to pick up points and it will only build confidence in the squad

I think that you expect too much of this board. There were very few positive threads on here when we won the first five games two seasons ago or when we achieved promotion that year with 91 points, so they are hardly likely at this point in time. Quite a few posters don't support the club anyway, don't go to games, don't like the owner, don't like most of the players, think that they are tactical geniuses and also that the club should bankrupt itself in the pursuit of glory.

[severncity]

I agree with the OP. Stoke had won four out of their previous seven games so the match wasn’t going to be easy. We are now playing a very different system and formation, with players being allowed more licence to roam. Our defence is far more dynamic, the whole setup is less rigid. The defence was superb, I really can’t understand why Flint gets so much grief. His partnership with Nelson looks very promising.

We have no right to expect anything, we are not a big club in this division. If we were relegated it would merely be part of the ongoing cyclical nature of football. Leicester, Sheff Utd, Swansea and Bournemouth have all been in level 3 since we last played there and have subsequently flourished. I enjoyed last night, I enjoy most matches apart from the ones where we are beaten heavily at home, and that has only really occurred when we’ve been in the Premier League in recent years (apart from the West Ham, Reading, Boro glitches).

In my lifetime we’ve never had it so good as these last twenty years and I’ve thoroughly enjoyed it - apart from the rebrand.

[dembethewarrior]

I agree with the OP. Stoke had won four out of their previous seven games so the match wasn’t going to be easy. We are now playing a very different system and formation, with players being allowed more licence to roam. Our defence is far more dynamic, the whole setup is less rigid. The defence was superb, I really can’t understand why Flint gets so much grief. His partnership with Nelson looks very promising.

We have no right to expect anything, we are not a big club in this division. If we were relegated it would merely be part of the ongoing cyclical nature of football. Leicester, Sheff Utd, Swansea and Bournemouth have all been in level 3 since we last played there and have subsequently flourished. I enjoyed last night, I enjoy most matches apart from the ones where we are beaten heavily at home, and that has only really occurred when we’ve been in the Premier League in recent years (apart from the West Ham, Reading, Boro glitches).

In my lifetime we’ve never had it so good as these last twenty years and I’ve thoroughly enjoyed it - apart from the rebrand.

Flint did look better.

And we definitely are a big club at this level fella.

[Optimistic Nick]

I was there, fully prepared 'to get behind the boys', but after the first eleven minutes there was little to get behind.

Best get a new manager then. I mean, sure he won the game and there does appear to be an improvement, but we won't even qualify for the champions League next season at this rate.

[Talksport]

I agree with the OP. Stoke had won four out of their previous seven games so the match wasn’t going to be easy. We are now playing a very different system and formation, with players being allowed more licence to roam. Our defence is far more dynamic, the whole setup is less rigid. The defence was superb, I really can’t understand why Flint gets so much grief. His partnership with Nelson looks very promising.

We have no right to expect anything, we are not a big club in this division. If we were relegated it would merely be part of the ongoing cyclical nature of football. Leicester, Sheff Utd, Swansea and Bournemouth have all been in level 3 since we last played there and have subsequently flourished. I enjoyed last night, I enjoy most matches apart from the ones where we are beaten heavily at home, and that has only really occurred when we’ve been in the Premier League in recent years (apart from the West Ham, Reading, Boro glitches).

In my lifetime we’ve never had it so good as these last twenty years and I’ve thoroughly enjoyed it - apart from the rebrand.

Totally agree with your points. I enjoyed last nights game, much more ball on the deck than under Warnock. Happy with what i saw last night considering its only 2 games in.

[Llandaff Blue]

I agree with the OP. Stoke had won four out of their previous seven games so the match wasn’t going to be easy. We are now playing a very different system and formation, with players being allowed more licence to roam. Our defence is far more dynamic, the whole setup is less rigid. The defence was superb, I really can’t understand why Flint gets so much grief. His partnership with Nelson looks very promising.

We have no right to expect anything, we are not a big club in this division. If we were relegated it would merely be part of the ongoing cyclical nature of football. Leicester, Sheff Utd, Swansea and Bournemouth have all been in level 3 since we last played there and have subsequently flourished. I enjoyed last night, I enjoy most matches apart from the ones where we are beaten heavily at home, and that has only really occurred when we’ve been in the Premier League in recent years (apart from the West Ham, Reading, Boro glitches).

In my lifetime we’ve never had it so good as these last twenty years and I’ve thoroughly enjoyed it - apart from the rebrand.

You do realise we have spent the best part of 10 years at the top end of the championship? On what planet are we not a big club at this level?

[Trigger]

Wasn't the most enjoyable match but was pleased that Harris got his first win sooner than later. 3 points, clean sheet, ultimately I want to see us win so I'm happy. Obviously if we can win while playing well then I'd prefer that.

It's his second match, with a minimal amount of training with the squad and between both boxes Stoke aren't the worst team. Overall its been a decent start for Harris.

[the other bob wilson]

Flint did look better.

And we definitely are a big club at this level fella.

Stoke resort to lumping it into our box in the closing stages and Flint comes into his own. If all sides played like that ninety minutes per game every week, he and Morrison would be the best pair of centrebacks in the Championship, but they don't and they aren't.

[blue lewj]

The big positive for me was when we got the ball we created more than Stoke did with Allen, Clucas, Woods, Ndiaye and Ince in their midfield. The spending on those players must be way and above what our midfield took to construct.

Ndiaye alone cost them a reported £14m. Add to that Joe Allen (£13m), Ince (£10m), Woods was value at around £6-7m when the Jacks were after him last year and Clucas cost them £6m. Our midfield created more than that midfield which cost approximately £50m.

Madine had his best game for some time and the defence were solid. I have knocked Flint for mistakes previously but I thought he was solid and retained his position better and didn't get dragged around as much.

I think we are trying to play more football and I'll take a win over a Stoke team with that level of talent (in a false league position I feel) that have won their last two games every day. 4 points from the first 2 games and remaining unbeaten after a nightmare few defensive lapses at Charlton is a solid start. Last night was not a vintage performance but, as has been said, he isn't going to turn a team that have had anti-football drummed into them into Barcelona overnight.

[Cyclops]

I don't think it's negativity - more like mind-numbing boredom and apathy

[blue lewj]

I don't think it's negativity - more like mind-numbing boredom and apathy

What were your thoughts on the football under Warnock?

You know lobbing throws up the line trying to gain territory, long throws into the box, smashing it 50 yards to the striker to wrestle with a defender and living off set pieces?

[Cyclops]

What were your thoughts on the football under Warnock?

In all honesty, some of the football in the beginning of the first promo season was absolutely thrilling. I enjoyed most of the Premiership matches where we had a chance. Even in this season I've enjoyed most of the home games. But that last game was dire.

Yesterday was the first time I've been bored in the last three seasons. There was no fight in 'em. They weren't motivated. They should have won by three or four goals. Instead we had just a few tame efforts.

[cardiff55]

The positive is that we won, and kept a clean sheet, and scored a very good goal. Probably under Warnock we would have drawn that game, no way Stoke were going to win unless we scored an own goal. I see Harris has moved the centre backs around, with Flint now playing on the right and Nelson as left centre back and Flint seems more comfortable there, but have top say Nelson doesn't. Interesting that he is putting his faith in Madine, who did well enough, but Bogle was awful when he came on. And we do have injuries, with Whyte, Ralls, Vassell and Glatzel all out, Bamba clearly not yet fit (oh and Jazz Richards, remember him?), and Ward suspended. I think only Ralls will make a difference. And Morrison on the bench.

Strange to see that Harris seems to have ignored Bamba , plays Tomlin and seems to be ignoring Murphy too.

And I think we have had 15 different scorers this season, plus an own goal!

But we are now 4 points off a Play Off place, so this division must be not very good this season, but the top two are starting to pull away. But I have hope.

[DubaiDai]

The positive is that we won, and kept a clean sheet, and scored a very good goal. Probably under Warnock we would have drawn that game, no way Stoke were going to win unless we scored an own goal. I see Harris has moved the centre backs around, with Flint now playing on the right and Nelson as left centre back and Flint seems more comfortable there, but have top say Nelson doesn't. Interesting that he is putting his faith in Madine, who did well enough, but Bogle was awful when he came on. And we do have injuries, with Whyte, Ralls, Vassell and Glatzel all out, Bamba clearly not yet fit (oh and Jazz Richards, remember him?), and Ward suspended. I think only Ralls will make a difference. And Morrison on the bench.

Strange to see that Harris seems to have ignored Bamba , plays Tomlin and seems to be ignoring Murphy too.

And I think we have had 15 different scorers this season, plus an own goal!

But we are now 4 points off a Play Off place, so this division must be not very good this season, but the top two are starting to pull away. But I have hope.

Any re-build will take time and I am under no illusion to get a top 6 finish this season.
I would like to see us start to play more football at floor level and maybe this has started. Our strike force has been badly depleted and I hope the return of Glatzel and Ward (along with Ralls) will improve our ability to play that way.
I am disappointed that Harris does not seem to have got Murphy firing. I still think he is our best forward and has the speed and shot (both feet) to raise our scoring ability.

[RonnieBird]

I think we're back to square one and starting the cycle all over again. Last three years wasted really, and the poster who said we're not a big club at this level is now correct I'm afraid .
We seem to be playing the standard championship tactics now, and I expect we'll do that as well as anyone else - some wins , some losses and the occasional winning streak, but without a specific and unique system it won't get promotion .
It'll be more entertaining to watch in many ways, which is what many here have demanded, so perhaps they'll enjoy it more than winning anything.
Of course, I hope I'm completely wrong about all this, but I doubt it really, and the question arises of how long we'll bounce around the mid table before we either get relegated or play to win.

[DubaiDai]

I think we're back to square one and starting the cycle all over again. Last three years wasted really, and the poster who said we're not a big club at this level is now correct I'm afraid .
We seem to be playing the standard championship tactics now, and I expect we'll do that as well as anyone else - some wins , some losses and the occasional winning streak, but without a specific and unique system it won't get promotion .
It'll be more entertaining to watch in many ways, which is what many here have demanded, so perhaps they'll enjoy it more than winning anything.
Of course, I hope I'm completely wrong about all this, but I doubt it really, and the question arises of how long we'll bounce around the mid table before we either get relegated or play to win.

I am afraid if this happens it will reflect on what everyone has been saying on this board for the last 2 weeks.
Harris is a totally underwhelming appointment.
We all wish him well and want to see the club succeed but the points you mention above would be as a result of having a mediocre manager/coach who cannot take the club forward.

[the other bob wilson]

The positive is that we won, and kept a clean sheet, and scored a very good goal. Probably under Warnock we would have drawn that game, no way Stoke were going to win unless we scored an own goal. I see Harris has moved the centre backs around, with Flint now playing on the right and Nelson as left centre back and Flint seems more comfortable there, but have top say Nelson doesn't. Interesting that he is putting his faith in Madine, who did well enough, but Bogle was awful when he came on. And we do have injuries, with Whyte, Ralls, Vassell and Glatzel all out, Bamba clearly not yet fit (oh and Jazz Richards, remember him?), and Ward suspended. I think only Ralls will make a difference. And Morrison on the bench.

Strange to see that Harris seems to have ignored Bamba , plays Tomlin and seems to be ignoring Murphy too.

And I think we have had 15 different scorers this season, plus an own goal!

But we are now 4 points off a Play Off place, so this division must be not very good this season, but the top two are starting to pull away. But I have hope.

Bamba looked ome way short of being ready for first team football when playing for the Under 23s on Monday.

[Bothroyd's Diving Coach]

I think we're back to square one and starting the cycle all over again. Last three years wasted really, and the poster who said we're not a big club at this level is now correct I'm afraid .
We seem to be playing the standard championship tactics now, and I expect we'll do that as well as anyone else - some wins , some losses and the occasional winning streak, but without a specific and unique system it won't get promotion .
It'll be more entertaining to watch in many ways, which is what many here have demanded, so perhaps they'll enjoy it more than winning anything.
Of course, I hope I'm completely wrong about all this, but I doubt it really, and the question arises of how long we'll bounce around the mid table before we either get relegated or play to win.

I understand the sentiment I really do, but it's posts like these that made me create the thread. Why are we making these assumptions after the bloke has been in charge for little over a week? I am among the mass who had umpteen names in mind before Harris but now that he's appointed I will give him the chance and back him as anybody deserves at least that? Like I said you make good points, but only if that ever comes to fruition.

If after some time and a transfer window (whether he's actually given funds is another thing) it's obvious there isn't a marked improvement then I will be with you in saying probably we got the appointment wrong but until then what's the bloke done to not have our backing? Ralls/Morrison/Glatzel/Ward/Whyte are out, and the squad have had one way of playing ingrained in them for the last 3 seasons so let's give him some time is all I'm saying.

[Bobby Dandruff]

I'll be honest I guess my feelings were misplaced when I thought I'd log on here this morning to see a couple of positive threads about the team but all I can see is negativity?
We have a brand new manager, who lets face it has inherited a confidence ridden squad who have had a dire (and partly successful I will concede) brand of football drummed into them over 3 years... did anybody expect that over 2 games in charge, we would become Manchester City?


I was there last night so under no illusions of how poor the quality was from both sides last night, but missing our best midfielder, captain and a player I think will flourish in this system (Whyte) I think we are showing signs of at least something positive, and thought we looked a lot more solid at the back last night.


All I can see are posts that carry bitterness with them as people can't seem to get behind Harris as he wasn't the first choice appointment for everybody (I get that), but for Christ sake let's get behind everyone and give the manager a chance to at least change things in stead of waiting 2 games?


Not a post saying people aren't allowed to criticise as like I've conceded there wasn't a lot of quality last night, just that I think we should be getting behind the boys. Let's face it, the atmosphere was crap last night (even in the first 10 minutes, when I thought we were pretty decent!). Anyway, hope the boys can continue to pick up points and it will only build confidence in the squad

I was at the Millwall game and the away fans were right behind Harris, as well as the team.

I wasn’t there last night but what I did see on TV was absolute dross.

There is no harm in stating the truth and I don’t think that anyone is giving up on Harris!

It was just dreadful to watch.

[dembethewarrior]

In all honesty, some of the football in the beginning of the first promo season was absolutely thrilling. I enjoyed most of the Premiership matches where we had a chance. Even in this season I've enjoyed most of the home games. But that last game was dire.

Yesterday was the first time I've been bored in the last three seasons. There was no fight in 'em. They weren't motivated. They should have won by three or four goals. Instead we had just a few tame efforts.

Reading Home last game of season promotion year. Just one time I’d bet my bollocks on you being more bored...

[RonnieBird]

I understand the sentiment I really do, but it's posts like these that made me create the thread. Why are we making these assumptions after the bloke has been in charge for little over a week? I am among the mass who had umpteen names in mind before Harris but now that he's appointed I will give him the chance and back him as anybody deserves at least that? Like I said you make good points, but only if that ever comes to fruition.

If after some time and a transfer window (whether he's actually given funds is another thing) it's obvious there isn't a marked improvement then I will be with you in saying probably we got the appointment wrong but until then what's the bloke done to not have our backing? Ralls/Morrison/Glatzel/Ward/Whyte are out, and the squad have had one way of playing ingrained in them for the last 3 seasons so let's give him some time is all I'm saying.

If I gave the impression that was blaming Mr Harris I apologise. I support him 120% and actually I think he's a very talented young manager.
My point was more to do with the fact that we've spent three years playing an unusual but quite successful variety of football, and accrued the right players for that game. It was a project which was quite successful at times , but everyone knew what they were supposed to be doing and opponents knew they'd have a difficult time coping with this unusual style.

It was always going to be very difficult when Sir Neil went, but I'd rather assumed that we'd have pre planned how to deal with the transition - either by continuing the warnockball initially or with a very clear alternative tactic .
However, as far as I can see they seem to be making it up as they go along at the moment - doing their best with a generic set up they're not used to and understandably getting it a bit wrong here and there. They're also getting it right in parts too because , despite what some here will say, they're all bloody good professional football players.
My experience is that dynamic success in football comes from playing a particular non standard game ,as Sir Neil was doing ,albeit with diminishing returns, Alf Ramsey without traditional wingers, Brian Clough with his hard disciplined and drilled football. That's all I'm saying - Neil Harris will probably work it out in time, but we really shouldn't be experimenting in live games after the joirney we've been on for the last three years .