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Thread: The War starts Putin announces "Military Operation" in Ukraine. Explosions heard in Kyiv

  1. #401
    International Rock_Flock_of_Five's Avatar
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    Re: The War starts Putin announces "Military Operation" in Ukraine. Explosions heard in Kyiv

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Tom Tugendhat has suggested the setting up of an international fund made from ceased Russian money and returned to the Russian public if Putin and his mob are removed, In his words "from whom it had been stolen in the first place

    Cracking idea.
    I'd prefer any money seized goes to rebuilding Ukraine.

  2. #402

    Re: The War starts Putin announces "Military Operation" in Ukraine. Explosions heard in Kyiv


  3. #403
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    Re: The War starts Putin announces "Military Operation" in Ukraine. Explosions heard in Kyiv

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    With this huge 40 mile convoy of tanks, artillery and armoured trucks approaching Kiev from the north I fear that this is it. Already civilian targets are being destroyed in the second city Kharkiv, so it's becoming no holds barred now. I think Putin has two options depending on his degree of impatience to take over Ukraine - if in a hurry, use every weapon he has to pulverise Kiev so that the president Zelensky has no option but to surrender to prevent a massacre, or alternatively if he is not in a rush, lay siege to the city and starve the population into submission. There are no words to describe Putin other than evil personified.
    If only Ukraine were able to have some air power. I would imagine a huge amount of damage could be done to a long, slow-moving, convoy like that.

  4. #404

    Re: The War starts Putin announces "Military Operation" in Ukraine. Explosions heard in Kyiv

    Quote Originally Posted by Rock_Flock_of_Five View Post
    If only Ukraine were able to have some air power. I would imagine a huge amount of damage could be done to a long, slow-moving, convoy like that.
    the convoy will almost certainly have some air defences

  5. #405
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    Re: The War starts Putin announces "Military Operation" in Ukraine. Explosions heard in Kyiv

    I keep praying and hoping that one of his "inner circle' does the right thing and pulls a pistol on him.

  6. #406
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    Re: The War starts Putin announces "Military Operation" in Ukraine. Explosions heard in Kyiv

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    the convoy will almost certainly have some air defences
    Of course, just wishful thinking on my part.

  7. #407

    Re: The War starts Putin announces "Military Operation" in Ukraine. Explosions heard in Kyiv

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    With this huge 40 mile convoy of tanks, artillery and armoured trucks approaching Kiev from the north I fear that this is it. Already civilian targets are being destroyed in the second city Kharkiv, so it's becoming no holds barred now. I think Putin has two options depending on his degree of impatience to take over Ukraine - if in a hurry, use every weapon he has to pulverise Kiev so that the president Zelensky has no option but to surrender to prevent a massacre, or alternatively if he is not in a rush, lay siege to the city and starve the population into submission. There are no words to describe Putin other than evil personified.
    It is really worrying.

    Just come out of a meeting with my colleagues... some of whom are working in Ukraine working to reform their care systems. Many of the unseen victims in this situation are the 100,000 children confined in 600 orphanages. They are the unseen victims of this conflict.

    While we work with many governments to prevent children being placed in orphanages and get children out of orphanages, a situation like the one in Ukraine shows how very vulnerable children in orphanages are.

    We have reports of carers and workers at orphanages not turning up for work and fleeing (understandably prioritising their own families), leaving children in orphanages alone with on one to care for them. We have even seen Russia target orphanages and today we have requested that they are temporarily recognised as humanitarian institutions so they are protected under the Geneva convention.

    We are:

    -calling on all actors in this conflict to keep orphanages out of the firing line. They must remain fully staffed and supplied with adequate food, water, medicines, hygiene products, communication devices and emergency provisions.

    - providing children and families in the conflict-zone with emergency aid, so they can bunker down with enough food, clothes, medicine and tape to prevent explosions and broken glass injuring people.

    - preparing for the safe evacuation of children and families from the warzone, if required. We’re ready with transportation and provisions such as food, torches and sleeping bags – accounting for, and tracking, every child.

    - calling on governments in neighbouring countries to support refugees fleeing over the border. Families must be kept together at all costs. And we must keep displaced children traveling alone out of orphanages - instead prioritising emergency foster care and family reunification.


    for more information visit our website:

    https://www.hopeandhomes.org/

    PS.. sorry for the promotion but it is an often forgotten issue. we worked in conflict zones before... South Sudan, Bosnia and Rwanda, so have see first hand the issue facing children

  8. #408

    Re: The War starts Putin announces "Military Operation" in Ukraine. Explosions heard in Kyiv

    Quote Originally Posted by AfricanBluebird View Post
    It is really worrying.

    Just come out of a meeting with my colleagues... some of whom are working in Ukraine working to reform their care systems. Many of the unseen victims in this situation are the 100,000 children confined in 600 orphanages. They are the unseen victims of this conflict.

    While we work with many governments to prevent children being placed in orphanages and get children out of orphanages, a situation like the one in Ukraine shows how very vulnerable children in orphanages are.

    We have reports of carers and workers at orphanages not turning up for work and fleeing (understandably prioritising their own families), leaving children in orphanages alone with on one to care for them. We have even seen Russia target orphanages and today we have requested that they are temporarily recognised as humanitarian institutions so they are protected under the Geneva convention.

    We are:

    -calling on all actors in this conflict to keep orphanages out of the firing line. They must remain fully staffed and supplied with adequate food, water, medicines, hygiene products, communication devices and emergency provisions.

    - providing children and families in the conflict-zone with emergency aid, so they can bunker down with enough food, clothes, medicine and tape to prevent explosions and broken glass injuring people.

    - preparing for the safe evacuation of children and families from the warzone, if required. We’re ready with transportation and provisions such as food, torches and sleeping bags – accounting for, and tracking, every child.

    - calling on governments in neighbouring countries to support refugees fleeing over the border. Families must be kept together at all costs. And we must keep displaced children traveling alone out of orphanages - instead prioritising emergency foster care and family reunification.


    for more information visit our website:

    https://www.hopeandhomes.org/

    PS.. sorry for the promotion but it is an often forgotten issue. we worked in conflict zones before... South Sudan, Bosnia and Rwanda, so have see first hand the issue facing children
    Heartbreaking. Hopefully they can find a way to get them out, or at least find a way of protecting them. They will certainly be in my thoughts

  9. #409

    Re: The War starts Putin announces "Military Operation" in Ukraine. Explosions heard in Kyiv

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisp_1927 View Post
    Heartbreaking. Hopefully they can find a way to get them out, or at least find a way of protecting them. They will certainly be in my thoughts
    Thank you.

    Times like these some of the petty squabbles we have on here seem so trivia in comparison (I'm an offender in that respect).

    Maybe, just maybe, the conflict can help people come together a little bit more with a better common sense of humanity.

  10. #410

    Re: The War starts Putin announces "Military Operation" in Ukraine. Explosions heard in Kyiv

    Quote Originally Posted by AfricanBluebird View Post
    It is really worrying.

    Just come out of a meeting with my colleagues... some of whom are working in Ukraine working to reform their care systems. Many of the unseen victims in this situation are the 100,000 children confined in 600 orphanages. They are the unseen victims of this conflict.

    While we work with many governments to prevent children being placed in orphanages and get children out of orphanages, a situation like the one in Ukraine shows how very vulnerable children in orphanages are.

    We have reports of carers and workers at orphanages not turning up for work and fleeing (understandably prioritising their own families), leaving children in orphanages alone with on one to care for them. We have even seen Russia target orphanages and today we have requested that they are temporarily recognised as humanitarian institutions so they are protected under the Geneva convention.

    We are:

    -calling on all actors in this conflict to keep orphanages out of the firing line. They must remain fully staffed and supplied with adequate food, water, medicines, hygiene products, communication devices and emergency provisions.

    - providing children and families in the conflict-zone with emergency aid, so they can bunker down with enough food, clothes, medicine and tape to prevent explosions and broken glass injuring people.

    - preparing for the safe evacuation of children and families from the warzone, if required. We’re ready with transportation and provisions such as food, torches and sleeping bags – accounting for, and tracking, every child.

    - calling on governments in neighbouring countries to support refugees fleeing over the border. Families must be kept together at all costs. And we must keep displaced children traveling alone out of orphanages - instead prioritising emergency foster care and family reunification.


    for more information visit our website:

    https://www.hopeandhomes.org/

    PS.. sorry for the promotion but it is an often forgotten issue. we worked in conflict zones before... South Sudan, Bosnia and Rwanda, so have see first hand the issue facing children
    Thanks for sharing that, I had no idea that Ukraine had this issue. I know Romania had a big problem with orphanages as I once volunteered over there to convert one of the terrible ones (I still remember the TV images of little ones rocking back and forth in metal cots) into a school. I have to admit that it's at time like this when my faith is severely challenged but I will continue to pray for Ukraine and especially now for these very vulnerable children. Surely even the evil Putin would not consider targeting these orphanages?

  11. #411

    Re: The War starts Putin announces "Military Operation" in Ukraine. Explosions heard in Kyiv

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    Thanks for sharing that, I had no idea that Ukraine had this issue. I know Romania had a big problem with orphanages as I once volunteered over there to convert one of the terrible ones (I still remember the TV images of little ones rocking back and forth in metal cots) into a school. I have to admit that it's at time like this when my faith is severely challenged but I will continue to pray for Ukraine and especially now for these very vulnerable children. Surely even the evil Putin would not consider targeting these orphanages?
    Thanks Gofer

    Yes Ukraine has sadly had this issue. We were making good progress, which now is delayed and derailed by this.

    We were the lead government partner in Romania to develop non-institutionalised services and transition orphanages to schools, family support centres, medical centres, day-care centres. We still have a pretty large presence there helping develop more services for children and young adults with special needs. So you may have worked with us without even knowing!

    My faith is always challenged.. I think it's healthy. Drop me a DM! Am back in Wales next week for a month. Buy you a pint!

  12. #412

    Re: The War starts Putin announces "Military Operation" in Ukraine. Explosions heard in Kyiv

    Quote Originally Posted by AfricanBluebird View Post
    Thanks Gofer

    Yes Ukraine has sadly had this issue. We were making good progress, which now is delayed and derailed by this.

    We were the lead government partner in Romania to develop non-institutionalised services and transition orphanages to schools, family support centres, medical centres, day-care centres. We still have a pretty large presence there helping develop more services for children and young adults with special needs. So you may have worked with us without even knowing!

    My faith is always challenged.. I think it's healthy. Drop me a DM! Am back in Wales next week for a month. Buy you a pint!
    The orphanage I worked on was in a village near Baia Mara in the north of Romania. We also helped in the final fitting out of a smaller community school/village hall/chapel for a gypsy community. It was a very rural and quite poor area. Some of the gypsy community were pretty scary folk but I think they respected what we were doing and didn't cause us any aggro!

    Would be a pleasure to meet up for a chat when you are back in Wales. Unfortunately I have just come down with COVID for the first time, so am out of action for the next week or so. Not feeling too bad, just a very sore throat, an annoying dry, tickly cough and lack of energy. My wife is not so good though - looks like it's going to be beans-on-toast for a while yet (culinary skills are not my strong point)!

  13. #413

    Re: The War starts Putin announces "Military Operation" in Ukraine. Explosions heard in Kyiv

    pretty sure I saw a program with Evan McGregor about 20 years ago, he was doing work for UNICEF at the time in Ukraine and that was based around the orphanage's, Ukraine in many ways are still caught in the old Communist cold ways despite fiercely wanting to be more Western

  14. #414

    Re: The War starts Putin announces "Military Operation" in Ukraine. Explosions heard in Kyiv

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Tom Tugendhat has suggested the setting up of an international fund made from ceased Russian money and returned to the Russian public if Putin and his mob are removed, In his words "from whom it had been stolen in the first place

    Cracking idea.
    I’ve thought the same, but give some of it - say 20% - to Ukraine in reparations.

  15. #415

    Re: The War starts Putin announces "Military Operation" in Ukraine. Explosions heard in Kyiv

    The best conclusion for this invasion is for the Russian people to turn on PooTin.
    I’d happily empty a magazine into him myself, but if the West is seen to be behind this, then all out war will follow.

  16. #416

    Re: The War starts Putin announces "Military Operation" in Ukraine. Explosions heard in Kyiv

    Shame this didn't happen a few years ago. Maybe when Russia annexed Crimea


  17. #417

    Re: The War starts Putin announces "Military Operation" in Ukraine. Explosions heard in Kyiv

    Quote Originally Posted by The Hooded Claw View Post
    The best conclusion for this invasion is for the Russian people to turn on PooTin.
    I’d happily empty a magazine into him myself, but if the West is seen to be behind this, then all out war will follow.
    It's going to take a while to work out what is going on, and it's always the solution that is most interesting.

  18. #418

    Re: The War starts Putin announces "Military Operation" in Ukraine. Explosions heard in Kyiv

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    The orphanage I worked on was in a village near Baia Mara in the north of Romania. We also helped in the final fitting out of a smaller community school/village hall/chapel for a gypsy community. It was a very rural and quite poor area. Some of the gypsy community were pretty scary folk but I think they respected what we were doing and didn't cause us any aggro!

    Would be a pleasure to meet up for a chat when you are back in Wales. Unfortunately I have just come down with COVID for the first time, so am out of action for the next week or so. Not feeling too bad, just a very sore throat, an annoying dry, tickly cough and lack of energy. My wife is not so good though - looks like it's going to be beans-on-toast for a while yet (culinary skills are not my strong point)!
    I'll be back for a month so drop your number into DM.

    Our head officies are in baia mara.. small world. Funny enough I was there just before covid. I ran the half marathon in Bucharest and then we took a delegation from India.. the head of the supreme court in India, chief justice Gupta, and others to baia mara... To see care reform in actions... Baia mara has moved away from orphanages and has many more services now to support families.

    The place you helped to refit is now a day care centre and small school. We repurposed the other orphanages into health centres, community centres, schools and also have a network of foster carers.

    If we meet I'll tell you about me and the head of the supreme court being pissed on.... Thought I blew it but he was very gracious and has since become a key advocate for us in India.

  19. #419

    Re: The War starts Putin announces "Military Operation" in Ukraine. Explosions heard in Kyiv

    Quote Originally Posted by AfricanBluebird View Post
    I'll be back for a month so drop your number into DM.

    Our head officies are in baia mara.. small world. Funny enough I was there just before covid. I ran the half marathon in Bucharest and then we took a delegation from India.. the head of the supreme court in India, chief justice Gupta, and others to baia mara... To see care reform in actions... Baia mara has moved away from orphanages and has many more services now to support families.

    The place you helped to refit is now a day care centre and small school. We repurposed the other orphanages into health centres, community centres, schools and also have a network of foster carers.

    If we meet I'll tell you about me and the head of the supreme court being pissed on.... Thought I blew it but he was very gracious and has since become a key advocate for us in India.
    Well, well - Baia Mara - a small world indeed! Have sent you a private message.

  20. #420

    Re: The War starts Putin announces "Military Operation" in Ukraine. Explosions heard in Kyiv

    Russian oligarch Fridman calls for end to Ukraine war (ref: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60557081)

    He also adds a rather telling statement: "He said the conflict in Ukraine should end as soon as possible, but avoided questions about outright condemnation of President Vladimir Putin's actions. "Please, don't push me to comment," he said, adding it would be not just "my personal risk, but also a risk for my colleagues and staff"."

    That surely says it all!

  21. #421

    Re: The War starts Putin announces "Military Operation" in Ukraine. Explosions heard in Kyiv

    Quote Originally Posted by The Hooded Claw View Post
    The best conclusion for this invasion is for the Russian people to turn on PooTin.
    I’d happily empty a magazine into him myself, but if the West is seen to be behind this, then all out war will follow.
    They are starting to protest as word gets around on what Putin is really doing….saw one in st Petersburg last night. Need a lot more people doing it now though. Those Russian soldiers are in for one hell of a shock if they are expecting a nice welcome from Ukrainians

  22. #422
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    Re: The War starts Putin announces "Military Operation" in Ukraine. Explosions heard in Kyiv

    There is a myth about the ability of the Russian armed forces that has been perpetuated for many years, that they are strong and effective and a very dangerous foe. The reality always was and still is far short of that and the last 6 days demonstrate it more clearly than any media article.
    During the cold war the British army in Germany estimated that the then Soviet forces needed a numerical superiority of about 6 to 1 to go against it and win, and they never achieved much better than 3 or 4 to 1. But, and this is important, the Russians estimated they would need 12 to 1 to be guaranteed of success. There were several reasons for this and most of them are extant.
    They could not trust the other Warsaw pact armies in a battle as they were afraid they attack Russian troops instead of the west (Paranoid about it). The mixed up all their troops so they all talked different dialects and sometimes virtually different languages because they were afraid of the troops talking to each other about their appalling conditions and mutinying. As a result the tanks in a squadron did not have radios only the squadron leaders tank so if a LAW operator knocked out the tank with the aerials he effectively neutralised the whole squadron until it could be sorted. Battle orders were normally indicated by flags. Because the vast majority of their army was conscript they had no will to fight except to defend their own space ( Important now) Their equipment below the flash missiles and planes was second rate. So much of the budget was wasted on too many submarines and missiles that the ordinary equipment was neglected.
    Today most of this is still true, except that there are no Warsaw Pact counties. One would have suspected that the would have gained total air superiority over Ukraine on Day 1 but they still haven’t achieved it. And the Ukrainian air force and air defence is old and relatively unsophisticated. Imagine the Russian air force going up against NATO which even now has 100 fighter/bomber aircraft on high alert without the re-enforcements to support them?
    The general staff besides being brave enough to tell Putin the truth also do not tell the truth down the chain of command for fear of their subordinates objecting. It is particularly important to remember that they will fight to protect their own homes which is what every able-bodied Ukrainian is doing, but have to stomach for killing people they see as their cousins. Orders are still only passed down as late as possible and only so far down the chain of command so the average soldier losing his commander has no idea where he is or what he is supposed to do. He also knows his equipment is no good and his food supply is no good. Conditions for conscripts is harsh at best.
    Russian Armoured vehicle, troop carrier and the like are built for offensive action. Their fuel tank are in the back doors. The Israelis used this to murderous effect in the Yom Kippur war when they dug holes in the Sinai desert waited for the Egyptians to pass and then fired rocket propelled grenade into the back of the vehicles. It is obvious that both the Russian and Ukrainian forces know this so when the Russian generals order their men to by pas trained Ukrainian units and then have them behind them they know what to expect and don’t want to go there. It is now being reported that the convoy heading for Kiev is not actually 40 KM long, it’s a large number of packets (Smal clusters) of vehicles which are bogged down because of broken down vehicles blocking the road, inferior equipment again. That convoy, because the Russians have no air superiority, shouldn’t even be on the road but as it is it’s a sitting duck for hit and run attacks using LAW and grenade launchers and every time it happens the ordinary Russian soldier wants to be there less and less. And they are fighting people who are mostly trained at ground level fighting, are receiving good western munitions which they see are effective and encourage them to believe the can stop the Russians. And the Russian soldier is frightened for himself.

    The whole think reeks of ineptitude by the generals, lack of proper planning, a total failure of logistics and the self-evident knowledge that no one in Moscow will tell Putin the truth. But now he is seeing it for himself and is apparently raging at his advisors.
    The western allies are looking on with glee, as the Russians confirm all the failings they demonstrated in Afghanistan and prove they have not learned much since, and seeing how useless their equipment command and control structure and planning are.
    It can only end in humiliation for Russia even if the eventually take Kiev. The problem is can Putin live with that?
    Sorry this is so long but it needs to be considered.
    Rant over!

  23. #423

    Re: The War starts Putin announces "Military Operation" in Ukraine. Explosions heard in Kyiv

    The Russians just haven't spent the money on Kit ( apart from ICBM's allegedly ) , the world knows that, more than 1/2 the soldiers are conscripts and just might not be fully committed to die for a cause , some of the Russian tanks lookalike they are from WW2 , yesterday had a video of a car driving past a tank and throwing Molotov cocktails at it, now the video was either from WW2 or the Russians had dragged out some old kit from a museum to roll into Kyiv

    back in the old days of the Cold War, Russia V's the rest of the world was always going to be a non-event on a battlefield, now its even more apparent, its only that Ukraine has no air support that that massive convoy hasn't been blown to bits, imagine a airforce taking run after run at it, Drones would take it apart ( as we used in Afghanistan and Syria )

  24. #424

    Re: The War starts Putin announces "Military Operation" in Ukraine. Explosions heard in Kyiv

    Quote Originally Posted by blue matt View Post
    The Russians just haven't spent the money on Kit ( apart from ICBM's allegedly ) , the world knows that, more than 1/2 the soldiers are conscripts and just might not be fully committed to die for a cause , some of the Russian tanks lookalike they are from WW2 , yesterday had a video of a car driving past a tank and throwing Molotov cocktails at it, now the video was either from WW2 or the Russians had dragged out some old kit from a museum to roll into Kyiv

    back in the old days of the Cold War, Russia V's the rest of the world was always going to be a non-event on a battlefield, now its even more apparent, its only that Ukraine has no air support that that massive convoy hasn't been blown to bits, imagine a airforce taking run after run at it, Drones would take it apart ( as we used in Afghanistan and Syria )
    It must be so frustrating for NATO generals looking at that slow moving convoy for the reason you say - it would be like the proverbial "shooting ducks in a barrel". Yet they are powerless to intervene.

  25. #425

    Re: The War starts Putin announces "Military Operation" in Ukraine. Explosions heard in Kyiv

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    It must be so frustrating for NATO generals looking at that slow moving convoy for the reason you say - it would be like the proverbial "shooting ducks in a barrel". Yet they are powerless to intervene.
    Fish not ducks methinks.

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