"Science is not perfect but it trumps faith and belief all the time" - true or false?

[jon1959]

And have either of you two ever read "The Blind Watchmaker"?

Don't get them going on Dawkins.

Truthpaste thinks all atheists have his books by the bedside and regard him as the High Priest of the Atheist Religion!

Oblivious to the fact that most atheists have never heard of him, let alone never read a word. And that atheism is the antithesis of religion, not its' substitute. False equivalence and fantasy!

But of course religion is also the enemy. Faith is the thing. Religion is the politicisation and commercialisation of 'true faith'. And Truthpaste (Gofer is in some ways different) is the Witchfinder General seeking out all those lost and deluded people who don't believe in his fantasy and irrationality.

They are both big on anti science though.

The argument now goes that the number of events that would have to happen for Truthpaste to be posting his far right fundamentalism (cultism) on a Cardiff City message board is so big, and the sequence so long and complicated, that it cannot be down to natural processes. There must be a Designer (But who designed the Designer?). It is a masterpiece of reverse engineering. In other words - bollux!

Rant over!

[jeepster]

Don't get them going on Dawkins.

Truthpaste thinks all atheists have his books by the bedside and regard him as the High Priest of the Atheist Religion!

Oblivious to the fact that most atheists have never heard of him, let alone never read a word. And that atheism is the antithesis of religion, not its' substitute. False equivalence and fantasy!

But of course religion is also the enemy. Faith is the thing. Religion is the politicisation and commercialisation of 'true faith'. And Truthpaste (Gofer is in some ways different) is the Witchfinder General seeking out all those lost and deluded people who don't believe in his fantasy and irrationality.

They are both big on anti science though.

The argument now goes that the number of events that would have to happen for Truthpaste to be posting his far right fundamentalism (cultism) on a Cardiff City message board is so big, and the sequence so long and complicated, that it cannot be down to natural processes. There must be a Designer (But who designed the Designer?). It is a masterpiece of reverse engineering. In other words - bollux!

Rant over!

I like it

[Gofer Blue]

And have either of you two ever read "The Blind Watchmaker"?

Yes. Have you watched the video about kinesin? Having watched it myself I am more convinced than ever that Dawkin's Blind Watchmaker whilst sounding very plausible is actually complete nonsense. There is no way that random mutations in the genes in single cell "primitive" organisms could result in such complexity. (Leaving aside how the genes came to be in the first place).

[Gofer Blue]

Don't get them going on Dawkins.

Truthpaste thinks all atheists have his books by the bedside and regard him as the High Priest of the Atheist Religion!

Oblivious to the fact that most atheists have never heard of him, let alone never read a word. And that atheism is the antithesis of religion, not its' substitute. False equivalence and fantasy!

But of course religion is also the enemy. Faith is the thing. Religion is the politicisation and commercialisation of 'true faith'. And Truthpaste (Gofer is in some ways different) is the Witchfinder General seeking out all those lost and deluded people who don't believe in his fantasy and irrationality.

They are both big on anti science though.

The argument now goes that the number of events that would have to happen for Truthpaste to be posting his far right fundamentalism (cultism) on a Cardiff City message board is so big, and the sequence so long and complicated, that it cannot be down to natural processes. There must be a Designer (But who designed the Designer?). It is a masterpiece of reverse engineering. In other words - bollux!

Rant over!

Pull the other one. Most atheists have never heard of Dawkins - your'e having a larf as my Essex friend Roy would say!!!

Absolutely untrue in my case - I won't speak for TP. If you mean I am not afraid to challenge certain scientific thinking - then yes, guilty as charged.

[jon1959]

Pull the other one. Most atheists have never heard of Dawkins - your'e having a larf as my Essex friend Roy would say!!!

Listening to your Essex friend Roy may be one of your mistakes.

There are probably 500 million full-on atheists in the world - and a much larger number who dabble with cultural religious rituals and those who adopt agnosticism as a label because they philosophocally allow for a degree of doubt about everything, even though they don't believe in a deity.

Over 200 million of those people are in China which is not a hotbed of Richard Dawkins study groups!

I would be amazed if even 5% of worldwide atheists recognised the name of Richard Dawkins. Most atheists I have known over the years in the UK (thousands of them) do not know Richard Dawkins or his books. Why would they? Their non-belief in any god is because they have no reason to believe in a god. They think it's infantile and/or deluded and has no relevance to their lives.

Which is right.

[az city]

I am not afraid to challenge certain scientific thinking - then yes, guilty as charged.

Do you believe in ghosts too? You're asserting the existence of something rather than relying on logic and fact.

[truthpaste]

Do you believe in ghosts too? You're asserting the existence of something rather than relying on logic and fact.

So what 'fact/s' have you accepted that provide you with a robust world view?

[truthpaste]

Listening to your Essex friend Roy may be one of your mistakes.

There are probably 500 million full-on atheists in the world - and a much larger number who dabble with cultural religious rituals and those who adopt agnosticism as a label because they philosophocally allow for a degree of doubt about everything, even though they don't believe in a deity.

Over 200 million of those people are in China which is not a hotbed of Richard Dawkins study groups!

I would be amazed if even 5% of worldwide atheists recognised the name of Richard Dawkins. Most atheists I have known over the years in the UK (thousands of them) do not know Richard Dawkins or his books. Why would they? Their non-belief in any god is because they have no reason to believe in a god. They think it's infantile and/or deluded and has no relevance to their lives.

Which is right.

To say you KNOW that the existence of matter and then life can arise without the planning and action of a supreme intelligent power would require you to demonstrate a logical alternative. You've had years to do so (just on this board alone) and you have failed to do so.

[jon1959]

To say you KNOW that the existence of matter and then life can arise without the planning and action of a supreme intelligent power would require you to demonstrate a logical alternative. You've had years to do so (just on this board alone) and you have failed to do so.

Zzzzzzz

[jeepster]

Zzzzzzz

Aw come on Jon he does have the book of all knowledge to educate us with.

[truthpaste]

Aw come on Jon he does have the book of all knowledge to educate us with.

Whereas nothing is really riviting

And his zzzzz is not deep, only disturbed.

[az city]

Whereas nothing is really riviting

And his zzzzz is not deep, only disturbed.

What's "riviting"?

[az city]

To say you KNOW that the existence of matter and then life can arise without the planning and action of a supreme intelligent power would require you to demonstrate a logical alternative. You've had years to do so (just on this board alone) and you have failed to do so.

Why did the "supreme intelligent power" invoke a universe? Just wondering.

[truthpaste]

Why did the "supreme intelligent power" invoke a universe? Just wondering.

Why did He create all things?
A good question. Given the fact that He was prepared to become one of us and suffer and die to solve the consequences of our rebellion (so that there was a pathway to forgiveness) so that everyone could have a personal and eternal relationship with Him; then I would say that the answer is 'family' - He seeks flawed people like me, who are willing to freely chose Him so we can be part of His FAMILY.

Here is a 60 second summary - clip

[Gofer Blue]

Listening to your Essex friend Roy may be one of your mistakes.

There are probably 500 million full-on atheists in the world - and a much larger number who dabble with cultural religious rituals and those who adopt agnosticism as a label because they philosophocally allow for a degree of doubt about everything, even though they don't believe in a deity.

Over 200 million of those people are in China which is not a hotbed of Richard Dawkins study groups!

I would be amazed if even 5% of worldwide atheists recognised the name of Richard Dawkins. Most atheists I have known over the years in the UK (thousands of them) do not know Richard Dawkins or his books. Why would they? Their non-belief in any god is because they have no reason to believe in a god. They think it's infantile and/or deluded and has no relevance to their lives.

Which is right.

OK, fine, I'll take your word for it. I can't claim to know thousands of atheists but the few that I do, often quote him (as do some of your fellow atheists on this forum and on various YouTube discussions).

Re: my Essex friend. He uses that expression to express his incredulity on ANY matter that he disagrees with! I would group him amongst your classification of those who have no need for God, such that the subject doesn't even cross his mind I don't think. In some ways he epitomises the "Essex man" image - immediately suspicious if someone he doesn't know offers to help ("what's he after" is his first thought), a "scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" attitude to life and if offended by anyone (even family members) will sever any contact with them indefinitely unless they apologise first! Interestingly though when his wife was dying after a brain haemorrhage he was happy for me to pray for her.

[Dembe]

If the moderates and left of centre can stick together the right can be kept out

If they are complacent and keep arguing then the devil's will be waiting

https://www.ccmb.co.uk/showthread.ph...as-Tory-leader

Sludge denies there is a God but is happy to acknowledge the existence of the devil. Strange.

[life on mars]

Sludge has put into words the feelings of a number of people who are active across CCMB.

Can this statement be verified or is it an unsubstantiated swipe at God, the Bible and people who have placed their trust in Him?

I know Sludge speaks through god as do Joe Biden .

I do wonder if he actually epresent the majority of CCMB members ,a few leave him alone due to his hatred of the Tories .

If he was at the right of politics he'd probaly been faced with hated and vilfied comnents from the righteous left and called a mystognistc daft racists ?

I think you can be accepted as a mystognistc and a racists, if your a Labour voter and folk tend do give you more licence to rant and be rude to others .

Up the reveloution.

[Gofer Blue]

Do you believe in ghosts too? You're asserting the existence of something rather than relying on logic and fact.

I have no interest or belief in ghosts. I believe in something far more important! What you and others on the forum seem to forget is that I once was a atheist too, hence my becoming a follower of Jesus was not just a whim or wishful thinking, but the realisation that the resurrection story is true "beyond reasonable doubt". It cannot be proved in the sense of a repeatable scientific experiment (sorry SF) as it was a one-off event two thousand years ago. Thoughts about evolution vs creationism are irrelevant to the resurrection narrative, hence had little influence.

That realisation of mine was just over 40 years ago. As time has gone by science has revealed more and more about the complexity of even a "simple" single celled creature such as a bacterium which leads me to conclude that there is a designer involved. Evolution may explain the diversity within the different species but not the origin of life.

[az city]

Why did He create all things?
A good question. Given the fact that He was prepared to become one of us and suffer and die to solve the consequences of our rebellion (so that there was a pathway to forgiveness) so that everyone could have a personal and eternal relationship with Him; then I would say that the answer is 'family' - He seeks flawed people like me, who are willing to freely chose Him so we can be part of His FAMILY.

Here is a 60 second summary - clip

You're confused. So your "god", alone but presumably content in her infinite power and knowledge, decided to "create" everything and give entities the power of "free will"? Same question - why?

[az city]

I have no interest or belief in ghosts. I believe in something far more important! What you and others on the forum seem to forget is that I once was a atheist too, hence my becoming a follower of Jesus was not just a whim or wishful thinking, but the realisation that the resurrection story is true "beyond reasonable doubt". It cannot be proved in the sense of a repeatable scientific experiment (sorry SF) as it was a one-off event two thousand years ago. Thoughts about evolution vs creationism are irrelevant to the resurrection narrative, hence had little influence.

That realisation of mine was just over 40 years ago. As time has gone by science has revealed more and more about the complexity of even a "simple" single celled creature such as a bacterium which leads me to conclude that there is a designer involved. Evolution may explain the diversity within the different species but not the origin of life.

I'm not atheist FYI. I do think creationism is a fantasy perpetrated by people unwilling to engage with fact. Here's one - presumably you don't believe in evolution at all?

[truthpaste]

I'm not atheist FYI. I do think creationism is a fantasy perpetrated by people unwilling to engage with fact. Here's one - presumably you don't believe in evolution at all?

1. Many evolutionists are now calling for a new theory (see clip below) as the current theory is now (ironically) being shot to pieces by fresh scientific discoveries in many areas of science.

2. Gofer mentioned, "Evolution may explain the diversity" within the species; unfortunately current evolution is nothing more than speciation (a diversity WITHIN each type of creature), ie Cats can become many Cats types, Dogs can become many Dog types, however there is no evidence for jumps from one type to another. So molecules to man is off the menu. Evolution has no solid evidence.

Jump 2 minutes into this, to be more precise, to 2:15 - evolution?