Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
I don't see the point of thinking about other things that are abusive to children as the parameters of this discussion would be incredibly wide, to say the least.

Just a few points off the top of my head regarding why I consider indoctrination of religion is abuse:

1. Children are informed in some religions that they are born as sinners.
2. They are informed that if they don't comply to a holy book foisted upon them that they will burn in hell.
3. Apostates in some religions can be shunned or punished.
3. In some religions, including Abrahamist religions, they are sexually mutilated as babies.
4. They are led to believe a myriad of fairy stories as if they were fact and whilst the religion they are introduced to has a history of denying factual information (and punishing those who promulgate such information).
5. They are led to believe in deities for which there is zero proof.
6. Religions tend to be run at the top table by males (who are ofen celibate) and have traditionally taught their adherents that females are chattels. Women have been historically subjugated as a result.
7. Religions sometimes foist upon a population their own portfolio of morals in their holy books - and which include stoning people for adultery and blasphemy, killing those who believe in other gods, a death penalty for homosexuality etc etc etc. (Most believers seem to happily gloss over such references in their respective tomes).
8. Religions and schisms thereof are divisive.
9. They encourage to believe in fantasy and are to be punished if they don't.
10. Religions are controlling. Many of them insist (or once insisted) that their adherents have to wear certain headgear, specific clothing, pray, pay tithes, eat only what is specified and on what days, to have sexual relations consistent with specific diktats, to rest and work on specific days.

I am meeting a dear friend, an ex-colleague, tomorrow for coffee. He is a lay-preacher in his spare time and has had to cherry-pick and sometimes change the church he attends - as he is a fundamentalist and believes in the talking snake and virgin birth whereas his peers think that the Bible is partly parable and not all literally true. Such schisms permeate religions as different parties compile, edit and interpret different sources etc (and to imagine that there is only one Bible is silly, of course).
Anyway, this chap is very altruistic within his parameters but told me a few years ago that one of his progeny went away to university and 'lost his religion', as it were. It was a huge bombshell to the family as their lives revolve around religion.
I saw my friend in passing last week (and arranged tomorrow's coffee stop) and he advised me that his son now has children, who he has not brought up in religion but he has advised them that they can discuss the subject matter with their grandparents (and they do) and they are allowed make up their own minds as to how they choose to view the world, humanity and a lot else.
Sadly, religions do not take this path. Quite the opposite.
I'm not going to counter what you say really, i'm aware of most of what you say as i was brought up with a religious mother ( she passed away last Monday and i'm now in the process of arranging a requiem mass for her and all that goes with it) My Father was brought up even more hard lined than my Mother, he could recite a requiem mass in Latin, Bit he denounced it all in his early twenties, got involved with The International Socialists (Later The Socialist Workers Party, became a prominent member Of The ANL, A Trade Unionist and Sat on the Council of The 'Respect Party' oddly enough, my mother was a huge part of those groups as well, although her Faith stayed close to her and there were some very interesting conversations to had at my house

My point is that The 'Establishment' can only do so much damage, most parents don't really believe all of that stuff, even the kids find it fanciful these days, and i can honestly say that i never had it rammed down my throat, was allowed to make my own decisions on faith and participation in it, and never once felt forced or indoctrinated as you put it. I don't believe in it, and i see the wrong it creates, but i'm not unique, there's millions of people like me who weren't brainwashed just because our parent or parents decided to det us Baptised or Christened. I'm sure though that in less developed countries where the church and the state play a more significant role, that people are controlled by religion..