Welsh speed limits - wtf!

[Swiss Peter]

Re: Welsh speed limits - wtf!

I’m not convinced about this new speed limit, but I’d put myself in the could be persuaded category. I’ve been looking for a reasonable article which sets out the pros and cons of the whole thing, this piece claims to do that, but I’m not sure about that.

https://theweek.com/transport/957358/pros-and-cons-of-waless-20mph-speed-limit

https://www.eta.co.uk/2023/05/05/myth-busters-20mph-speed-limits/

https://www.rospa.com/rospaweb/docs/...factsheet.pdfS

Yes, first two appear to have an agenda and the third doesn't open for me.

I know what you mean though about a simple overview of the pros and cons being useful. I've gone to the Government's own cost/benefit assessment to understand it better. It has a bullet pointed executive summary. People may not agree with the assumptions made and values applied but it at least sets out what has been assumed on both sides of the equation.

[The Bloop]

Re: Welsh speed limits - wtf!

Whilst I'm broadly persuaded that this is a good idea, what I'm not too happy with is the apparent increase in the number of mobile speed cameras. I don't think it's particularly fair to prosecute whilst drivers adjust to new limits and a totally new way of driving. A period of grace and adjustment is needed.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Welsh speed limits - wtf!

Whilst I'm broadly persuaded that this is a good idea, what I'm not too happy with is the apparent increase in the number of mobile speed cameras. I don't think it's particularly fair to prosecute whilst drivers adjust to new limits and a totally new way of driving. A period of grace and adjustment is needed.

[LeningradCowboy]

Re: Welsh speed limits - wtf!

Someone may want to point out to WOL that 61% isn't two thirds.
The interesting thing is, if the question was - 'Would you back 20mph in the streets around your home?' then you'd likely get above 90% saying yes.
The reality is that it's easier/quicker/cheaper to do a blanket change from 30mph to 20mph and given time and more local/council involvement, we'll see more main routes get changed back to 30. It just takes a bit of time.
So as it stands it won't work perfectly but given time, it'll be adapted and on smaller roads, we'll get used to it

The Welsh Government leaflet that was distributed recently said that 63% of people supported lower speed limits on the street where they live.

[superfeathers]

Re: Welsh speed limits - wtf!

The Welsh Government leaflet that was distributed recently said that 63% of people supported lower speed limits on the street where they live.

That may not have factored
In that some will already be in a 20 zone too

[TWGL1]

Re: Welsh speed limits - wtf!

https://www.facebook.com/groups/850009642972084/permalink/854530409186674/

[superfeathers]

Re: Welsh speed limits - wtf!

Whilst I'm broadly persuaded that this is a good idea, what I'm not too happy with is the apparent increase in the number of mobile speed cameras. I don't think it's particularly fair to prosecute whilst drivers adjust to new limits and a totally new way of driving. A period of grace and adjustment is needed.

Agree with you here. Just an idea but in areas where they’ve gone from 30 to 20 a warning letter would be good for a first offence, unless it’s over 30 obvs.

[JamesWales]

Re: Welsh speed limits - wtf!

The issue here is the blanket approach they have attempted to impose, which does seem rather excessive to many people..

The overwhelming majority of streets in Cardiff are only safe at 20 anyway. Think of pretty much every terraced street, any cul de sac, any small residential road. No one whatsoever disputes that these places should be 20, and indeed no one really exceeds that anyway as they will risk their own car let alone the safety of others.

The problem is the roads that are vital to getting around, including, crucially, bus routes where people typically aren't nipping across roads, where some cars often grossly exceed the current limit anyway (and still will) and where 20mph seems excessively slow, creating stress delays, frustration etc. That of course is balanced against it being safer if everyone did follow it, but people are allowed to balance safety with other factors as we all do that in all aspects of life.

Off the top of my head, the road where this doesn't feel right at all include roads like; Gabalfa Avenue, Pencisely Road, Heol Llanishen Fach, Cathedral Road, Heatheood Road, Caerphilly Road etc, all of which I believe will be 20mph soon and I don't think someone doing 24mph there can realistically be called a dangerous driver.

I just think they have this wrong. They've gone too far.

[Rjk]

Re: Welsh speed limits - wtf!

The issue here is the blanket approach they have attempted to impose, which does seem rather excessive to many people..

The overwhelming majority of streets in Cardiff are only safe at 20 anyway. Think of pretty much every terraced street, any cul de sac, any small residential road. No one whatsoever disputes that these places should be 20, and indeed no one really exceeds that anyway as they will risk their own car let alone the safety of others.

The problem is the roads that are vital to getting around, including, crucially, bus routes where people typically aren't nipping across roads, where some cars often grossly exceed the current limit anyway (and still will) and where 20mph seems excessively slow, creating stress delays, frustration etc. That of course is balanced against it being safer if everyone did follow it, but people are allowed to balance safety with other factors as we all do that in all aspects of life.

Off the top of my head, the road where this doesn't feel right at all include roads like; Gabalfa Avenue, Pencisely Road, Heol Llanishen Fach, Cathedral Road, Heatheood Road, Caerphilly Road etc, all of which I believe will be 20mph soon and I don't think someone doing 24mph there can realistically be called a dangerous driver.

I just think they have this wrong. They've gone too far.

I don't agree with most of the roads you've listed there - Caerphilly road would make sense to me, but the others no

[MOZZER2]

Re: Welsh speed limits - wtf!

�� | New 20mph speed limits in Wales expected to reduce deaths by 0.03%

��In 2022 there were 35,694 deaths in Wales & the Welsh Government expects the new limit to reduce this by 9

�� Far more lives are lost each year because of poor NHS management, including ambulance delays pic.twitter.com/6WHXhdZHs0

— Jamie Jenkins (@statsjamie) September 14, 2023

[Rjk]

Re: Welsh speed limits - wtf!

�� | New 20mph speed limits in Wales expected to reduce deaths by 0.03%

��In 2022 there were 35,694 deaths in Wales & the Welsh Government expects the new limit to reduce this by 9

�� Far more lives are lost each year because of poor NHS management, including ambulance delays pic.twitter.com/6WHXhdZHs0

— Jamie Jenkins (@statsjamie) September 14, 2023

What an utterly ridiculous statement.

reducing your speed to 20mph on a few roads you use will help to save the lives of 9-10 people next year? that's pretty ****ing impressive for the actually minimal amount of effort it actually takes to drive a bit slower.

this person seems to be complaining that the road speed reduction is doing nothing to help the numbers of people dying from heart disease or cancer.

[superfeathers]

Re: Welsh speed limits - wtf!

Was taking a look at a piece on the BBC earlier.

"Latest official figures show more people were killed or seriously injured in 30mph zones in Wales last year than at any other speed limit.

Of the 1,014 people killed or severely hurt on Welsh roads in 2022, more than 40% of the people (421) were hit in a 30mph stretch of road".

So if the 10 people getting killed are insignificant surely 421 are worth a thought?
It's hard to argue against to be honest.

[JamesWales]

Re: Welsh speed limits - wtf!

What an utterly ridiculous statement.

reducing your speed to 20mph on a few roads you use will help to save the lives of 9-10 people next year? that's pretty ****ing impressive for the actually minimal amount of effort it actually takes to drive a bit slower.

this person seems to be complaining that the road speed reduction is doing nothing to help the numbers of people dying from heart disease or cancer.

Depends on your perspective though doesn't it. I'm sure there are a multitude of things that could be done to save less than 10 Welsh lives a year, all of which would slowly chip away about people's quality of life etc.

Will be interesting to see how this goes anyway. I suspect there will be minimal compliance although I also think the average speed will come down, but not to below 20.

[pipster]

Re: Welsh speed limits - wtf!

Was taking a look at a piece on the BBC earlier.

"Latest official figures show more people were killed or seriously injured in 30mph zones in Wales last year than at any other speed limit.

Of the 1,014 people killed or severely hurt on Welsh roads in 2022, more than 40% of the people (421) were hit in a 30mph stretch of road".

So if the 10 people getting killed are insignificant surely 421 are worth a thought?
It's hard to argue against to be honest.

Q - The people who were injured or killed in a 30mph zone - how fast was the vehicle going that hit them ?


The implied logic seems to be that everyone in a vehicle will adhere to the 20mph limit. If people dont adhere to a 30 the same people wont adhere to a 20.
I think this will end up being Drakeford's Poll Tax moment, I dont see people in Wales adhering to it.

[superfeathers]

Re: Welsh speed limits - wtf!

Q - The people who were injured or killed in a 30mph zone - how fast was the vehicle going that hit them ?


The implied logic seems to be that everyone in a vehicle will adhere to the 20mph limit. If people dont adhere to a 30 the same people wont adhere to a 20.
I think this will end up being Drakeford's Poll Tax moment, I dont see people in Wales adhering to it.

So what you’re saying then is that the law isn’t the issue it’s just ensuring compliance

I’d suggest average speed check cameras will be the best bet, people largely tend to take those seriously and presumably will pay for themselves over time