40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

[truthpaste]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

His "estimated' IQ! You can't estimate an IQ without a properly conducted test. People have tried this many times before and failed badly.

Hitler had obvious special qualities: his oration being paramount. He was also likely a strong character with superbly honed political nous. However, he also had failings, as his Generals would have arrested to. His character flaws were spectacular, especially his twisted ethical outlook. No one with intellect needs any God to tell them Hitler was a bad 'un.

You've made my point, intelligence has nothing to do with morality, the question remains that IF we are evolved animals, then why do we have a sense of right and wrong when other animals will simply eat each other for lunch?

[delmbox]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

An answer, yes. Obvious, No.
Hitler and others with brilliant minds and influence over others have no shortage of intelligence, but would be said to have less morallity than your average Cobra.

Please tell me you've got something better than "Hitler was a person and he was evil" as an argument against the idea that most humans are naturally compassionate without needing to be told to be by a book

[Dorcus]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

You've made my point, intelligence has nothing to do with morality, the question remains that IF we are evolved animals, then why do we have a sense of right and wrong when other animals will simply eat each other for lunch?

As I've pointed out, Superior Intelligence and incidentally even the God fearing bunch eat animals for lunch. By the way animals can display ethical characteristics too but one thing they can't do is purchase their lunch from Sainsbury's...yet!

[truthpaste]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

As I've pointed out, Superior Intelligence and incidentally even the God fearing bunch eat animals for lunch. By the way animals can display ethical characteristics too but one thing they can't do is purchase their lunch from Sainsbury's...yet!

If using Sainsburys correctly is the mark of being significant then we are in trouble.
Ethics in the main are seen consistently across humanity which makes us distinct from most other life forms; the question is why?
If we take the deeply flawed Darwinian view, then we have to explain WHERE we all obtained our sense of morality from? And WHEN?
I've yet to hear or see anyone do that in over four decades of asking the question.

[Dorcus]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

If using Sainsburys correctly is the mark of being significant then we are in trouble.
Ethics in the main are seen consistently across humanity which makes us distinct from most other life forms; the question is why?
If we take the deeply flawed Darwinian view, then we have to explain WHERE we all obtained our sense of morality from? And WHEN?
I've yet to hear or see anyone do that in over four decades of asking the question.

No nothing you've mentioned here is anywhere near correct. You've got a huge learning curve I'm afraid. I'm not even sure we are distinct from other life forms with reference to ethics. We have barely scratched the surface in terms of understanding animals and I suspect zoologists will tell you there are studies which strongly suggest SOME groups of animals display ethical tendencies.

By the way, many many humans show no evidence of being ethical. Take the murderous clique running the Israeli government and their henchmen. They show less ethical qualities than your average mudskipper.

[Dorcus]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Incidentally, I'm not trying to influence your beliefs. You're entitled to believe whatever you wish as long as you cause no harm to other humans or animals and keep your beliefs to yourself. I for one believe there are fairies at the back of my garden and no one could convince me otherwise.

Nevertheless, as the plethora of man made religions go, I've always felt the old Manaechian doctrine of humans being part God and part Devil with an eternal fight for dominance by the two psyches is the best explanation of the human plight. It's a never ending struggle for mastery of our collective soul which involves intellectual heft denouncing and finally defeating bestial selfishness.

[jon1959]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

You've made my point, intelligence has nothing to do with morality, the question remains that IF we are evolved animals, then why do we have a sense of right and wrong when other animals will simply eat each other for lunch?

Are you really pretending to stand on the side of morality?

I have no idea how you define morality but you have claimed on this board that the Israeli government is showing restraint in its ethnic cleansing of Palestinians who (I assume from everything else you have posted) you see as squatting on land that your god promised to his chosen people 3000+ years ago, as recorded in the the documents that came down to us as the Old Testament.

You are an immoral, reactionary, cheerleader for ethnic cleansing, genocide and crimes against humanity - all because you have an infantile belief in a stone age to medieval book that has been mangled over generations of mistranslations and feeds your need for a supernatural explanation for the universe and our place in the world.

Your constant banging on with biblical quotes to support your far right political views is tedious, irrelevant and and offensive. You won't stop, but I can't see any reason to pander to your crap any more. You are clearly fishing, and it would be better if there were no more bites!

[Dorcus]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Are you really pretending to stand on the side of morality?

I have no idea how you define morality but you have claimed on this board that the Israeli government is showing restraint in its ethnic cleansing of Palestinians who (I assume from everything else you have posted) you see as squatting on land that your god promised to his chosen people 3000+ years ago, as recorded in the the documents that came down to us as the Old Testament.

You are an immoral, reactionary, cheerleader for ethnic cleansing, genocide and crimes against humanity - all because you have an infantile belief in a stone age to medieval book that has been mangled over generations of mistranslations and feeds your need for a supernatural explanation for the universe and our place in the world.

Your constant banging on with biblical quotes to support your far right political views is tedious, irrelevant and and offensive. You won't stop, but I can't see any reason to pander to your crap any more. You are clearly fishing, and it would be better if there were no more bites!

Why doesn't he just keep his ridiculous nonsense to himself?

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Are you suggesting that non-Christians do not have morals and/or are incapable of coming up with any? As the majority of the population of the world are not of your ilk (and never has been) that sounds rather ridiculous.

Well?

[truthpaste]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Incidentally, I'm not trying to influence your beliefs. You're entitled to believe whatever you wish as long as you cause no harm to other humans or animals and keep your beliefs to yourself. I for one believe there are fairies at the back of my garden and no one could convince me otherwise.

Nevertheless, as the plethora of man made religions go, I've always felt the old Manaechian doctrine of humans being part God and part Devil with an eternal fight for dominance by the two psyches is the best explanation of the human plight. It's a never ending struggle for mastery of our collective soul which involves intellectual heft denouncing and finally defeating bestial selfishness.

Not bad for a agnostic/secular construct, but how would that be fair to non intellectuals?

[truthpaste]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Well?

The issue isn't what (for some) is the convenience of morality, but the origin of it?

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

The issue isn't what (for some) is the convenience of morality, but the origin of it?

So is it your belief that the Christian god is resposible for injecting humanity with morals in China (population 1.5 billion), India (population 1.5 billion) and throughout the of Muslims world (population c. 1.8 billion)? numbers

*I used Wikipedia population figures but it's not a hill I would be prepared to die on, as it were. Anyone with any nous will get the thrust of my question.

[truthpaste]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

So is it your belief that the Christian god is resposible for injecting humanity with morals in China (population 1.5 billion), India (population 1.5 billion) and throughout the of Muslims world (population c. 1.8 billion)? numbers

*I used Wikipedia population figures but it's not a hill I would be prepared to die on, as it were. Anyone with any nous will get the thrust of my question.

No, in fact here is what Christ said about the human heart in it's natural state:-

Matthew 15:19 - "For from the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, all sexual immorality, theft, lying, and slander"

NB: 15 minutes of Eastenders should provide examples of most of these if clarification is needed.

[jeepster]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

No, in fact here is what Christ said about the human heart in it's natural state:-

Matthew 15:19 - "For from the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, all sexual immorality, theft, lying, and slander"

NB: 15 minutes of Eastenders should provide examples of most of these if clarification is needed.

Thoughts do not come from the heart.

[truthpaste]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Thoughts do not come from the heart.

Here is your god 'science' addressing the issue:-

The biological relationship between the heart and the brain
The heart pumps blood. It is needed for survival. The heart does not have components that manifest as thinking but it does show strong changes to emotions, but it can’t itself feel. The brain/mind allows us to think, feel, and act using many systems of neurons that work together. The brain/mind creates emotions and thoughts. We also know that the brain guides the functioning of every other organ, including the heart. Organs respond to each other and work together. They are in a feedback loop.

The heart has about 40,000 neurites (projections from a neuron’s cell body) of its own – commonly called “the little brain[1],” which is also recently 3-D mapped[2]. They monitor and adjust the heart’s functions and send signals back to the brain[3], which indirectly influences perception and decision-making. There are theories that these neurites also participate in habit-style learning and memory. In comparison to the neurites in the brain (100 billion neurons with 50-60 neurites each), 40,000 is almost zero, but not zero.

Emotions cause changes in heart rate[4], and have a unique “cardiac profile” for common emotions. Sadness increases blood pressure and resistance in the circulatory system but reduces the amount of blood pumped. Fear and joy increase systolic blood pressure. Anger increases blood output and diastolic blood pressure. Generally, emotions change 4 very important properties of the cardiovascular system: Blood pressure, heart rate variability, vascular resistance, and heart output. This is why relaxation exercises work – we can consciously control how the heart works to a small extent using emotions.

Changes in heart rate due to non-psychological reasons[5] like food, diet, organ regulation, disease, etc., affect our emotions too. In fact, the James-Lange theory of emotion (re-interpreted with new findings) states that emotions are labeled in the brain after physiological changes. And those changes then affect our perception, which again changes the body’s response. For example, a sudden change in heart rate might cause a person to worry, and then anxious thoughts coming from detecting worrisome information can further increase heart rate after that.

But the relationship between the 2 is more complicated.[6] The medulla oblongata, a part of the brainstem, is one of the most primitive regions of the brain, and it controls automatic processes like heartbeat and breathing. Damage to this area can slowly degrade breathing and heart function. In neurodegenerative disorders like ALS, Parkinson’s, and Alzheimer’s, neurons in that area can die or malfunction and eventually lead to death by cardiac arrest.

More physiological changes like physical ticking, facial expressions, pupil dilation, sweating, changes in voice, etc., indicate emotional states. That’s why the idea that emotions are physical also seems accurate in everyday scenarios. We have evolved to experience the mental aspect of emotions along with physical changes. Our sympathetic nervous system and parasympathetic nervous system connect emotions and physical changes. This association is so strong that it continuously reinforces the connection between the heart and emotion. We don’t experience one without the other. Physical changes make emotions tangible and observable to others, too. That is why we can gain some insight into other people’s emotional states by observing their physical states – especially, the heart – the speed of pumping, heaviness, and chest movement.

These observations show the heart is closely tied to emotions at a physical level, but the labeling of emotion occurs in the brain. So, using the word “heart” to represent emotions is quite natural and logical.