Amsterdam Violence

[Feedback]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

Of course, although it's not like the terrible war isn't talked about. There always has to be room for a diversity of news and theres more than one global conflict too of course. No question it pales into insignificance compared to what other people go through

91 Jews were murdered during kristallnacht.

The recent football fisticuffs just doesn't compare.

What does compare to Kristallnacht is the daily systematic elimination of non belligerents in the gaza strip

[JamesWales]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

91 Jews were murdered during kristallnacht.

The recent football fisticuffs just doesn't compare.

What does compare to Kristallnacht is the daily systematic elimination of non belligerents in the gaza strip

Of course.

But why are you talking about kristallnacht?

[jon1959]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

Of course.

But why are you talking about kristallnacht?

You have posted BBC reports yourself in this thread - and many of them used 'the anniversary of Kristallnacht' to create an impression that Nazi-like 'Jew hating' mobs were swarming around Amsterdam. So did most of the other major western news outlets - including Sky, The Guardian and many US online papers. They also echoed the Netanyahu government lines that what happened in Amsterdam was a 'pogrom'.

Most of the mainstream media completely bought into a narrative that whitewashed the Israeli fans' actions, that misrepresented the events (including the inversion of reality highlighted in the Owen Jones YouTube piece), promoted the idea that Israelis and European Jews are eternal victims and different rules and judgements must apply to them, and deflected political and media attention (with the full connivance of politicians and the media) from the latest atrocities committed by Israel in Lebanon, Gaza and the West Bank - where the actual pogroms are taking place.

Interesting too that the US and European right and far right are falling over themselves to echo and amplify every propaganda line that comes out of Israel. We live in an era where Israel finds its key allies in Geert Wilders, Tommy Robinson and Marine Le Pen as well as Nancy Pelosi, Joe Biden and Ursula Von der Layen. In the old days it was just apartheid South Africa!

[JamesWales]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

You have posted BBC reports yourself in this thread - and many of them used 'the anniversary of Kristallnacht' to create an impression that Nazi-like 'Jew hating' mobs were swarming around Amsterdam. So did most of the other major western news outlets - including Sky, The Guardian and many US online papers. They also echoed the Netanyahu government lines that what happened in Amsterdam was a 'pogrom'.

Most of the mainstream media completely bought into a narrative that whitewashed the Israeli fans' actions, that misrepresented the events (including the inversion of reality highlighted in the Owen Jones YouTube piece), promoted the idea that Israelis and European Jews are eternal victims and different rules and judgements must apply to them, and deflected political and media attention (with the full connivance of politicians and the media) from the latest atrocities committed by Israel in Lebanon, Gaza and the West Bank - where the actual pogroms are taking place.

Interesting too that the US and European right and far right are falling over themselves to echo and amplify every propaganda line that comes out of Israel. We live in an era where Israel finds its key allies in Geert Wilders, Tommy Robinson and Marine Le Pen as well as Nancy Pelosi, Joe Biden and Ursula Von der Layen. In the old days it was just apartheid South Africa!

So BBC bad and Owen Jones, who has rapidly become an online agitator is right?

Why on earth do you take Owen Jones as gospel, but the Dutch Prime Minister, Mayor of Amsterdam and Police chief not, let alone all the "mainstream media".

No one disputes bad behaviour on both sides. It doesn't justify what happened afterwards. That's the crux of it. No one disputes sparks but that doesn't justify "hit and run attacks" which the article below numbers at 14.

Why can some of you seemingly not accept that a serious event happened?

They are expecting further riots tonight btw.

This is one of the main centre-left newspapers in Netherlands btw and they are doing a live-ticker. It's quite interesting.

https://www.volkskrant.nl/krant/digitaal/vandaag

[Wales-Bales]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

Any updates on the alleged presence of IDF/Mossad members being present in Amsterdam? Was it both, none, or one?

[jon1959]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

So BBC bad and Owen Jones, who has rapidly become an online agitator is right?

Why on earth do you take Owen Jones as gospel, but the Dutch Prime Minister, Mayor of Amsterdam and Police chief not, let alone all the "mainstream media".

No one disputes bad behaviour on both sides. It doesn't justify what happened afterwards. That's the crux of it. No one disputes sparks but that doesn't justify "hit and run attacks" which the article below numbers at 14.

Why can some of you seemingly not accept that a serious event happened?

They are expecting further riots tonight btw.

This is one of the main centre-left newspapers in Netherlands btw and they are doing a live-ticker. It's quite interesting.

https://www.volkskrant.nl/krant/digitaal/vandaag

'Owen Jones as gospel'? What are you on about? Did you watch the piece posted by TOBW?

A clip posted on X by a local Dutch journalist showed Maccabi fans chasing and kicking local Dutch youths. Jones interviewed her. Her clip was used by European TV channels but flipped - they presented it as Dutch (or Moroccans or Arabs or Muslims or Palestinian solidarity campaigners) chasing and attacking Israeli football fans. It was a lie. Only one TV channel (a German one) subsequently apologised to the Dutch journalist for using her clip to deliberately lie to their viewers.

No one is denying that a serious event happened. Very few are denying that there could have been an anti semitic element to some of the later violence. But the way the whole series of events was framed and manipulated by TV, press and politicians, and used for cynical propaganda purposes is where there seems to be a difference between you and most on this thread.

[jon1959]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

Fuller accounts of what happened are now starting to appear on the back of a report from the city mayor:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/nov/12/toxic-cocktail-led-to-amsterdam-violence-mayor-says

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

So BBC bad and Owen Jones, who has rapidly become an online agitator is right?

Why on earth do you take Owen Jones as gospel, but the Dutch Prime Minister, Mayor of Amsterdam and Police chief not, let alone all the "mainstream media".

No one disputes bad behaviour on both sides. It doesn't justify what happened afterwards. That's the crux of it. No one disputes sparks but that doesn't justify "hit and run attacks" which the article below numbers at 14.

Why can some of you seemingly not accept that a serious event happened?

They are expecting further riots tonight btw.

This is one of the main centre-left newspapers in Netherlands btw and they are doing a live-ticker. It's quite interesting.

https://www.volkskrant.nl/krant/digitaal/vandaag

Your bias is showing again James, the relevant thing with the video I posted is not who asked the questions, but who answered them - the person that shot the film has maintained all along that the main stream media are wrong in their interpretation of events. Also, why did Sky completely change the emphasis of their reporting?

You’ll probably dismiss on the grounds of who is presenting this video, but this features someone else actually filming supporters who says they’re Maccabi fans.

[JamesWales]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

'Owen Jones as gospel'? What are you on about? Did you watch the piece posted by TOBW?

A clip posted on X by a local Dutch journalist showed Maccabi fans chasing and kicking local Dutch youths. Jones interviewed her. Her clip was used by European TV channels but flipped - they presented it as Dutch (or Moroccans or Arabs or Muslims or Palestinian solidarity campaigners) chasing and attacking Israeli football fans. It was a lie. Only one TV channel (a German one) subsequently apologised to the Dutch journalist for using her clip to deliberately lie to their viewers.

No one is denying that a serious event happened. Very few are denying that there could have been an anti semitic element to some of the later violence. But the way the whole series of events was framed and manipulated by TV, press and politicians, and used for cynical propaganda purposes is where there seems to be a difference between you and most on this thread.

Why is the mayor of Amsterdam and the Dutch PM lying then?

[JamesWales]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

Your bias is showing again James, the relevant thing with the video I posted is not who asked the questions, but who answered them - the person that shot the film has maintained all along that the main stream media are wrong in their interpretation of events. Also, why did Sky completely change the emphasis of their reporting?

You’ll probably dismiss on the grounds of who is presenting this video, but this features someone else actually filming supporters who says they’re Maccabi fans.

My bias? I am merely stating that it seems very likely that serious antisemitic attacks occured. And that seems to be verified.

Do you not think that is the case? If so why are the politicians lying?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

'Owen Jones as gospel'? What are you on about? Did you watch the piece posted by TOBW?

A clip posted on X by a local Dutch journalist showed Maccabi fans chasing and kicking local Dutch youths. Jones interviewed her. Her clip was used by European TV channels but flipped - they presented it as Dutch (or Moroccans or Arabs or Muslims or Palestinian solidarity campaigners) chasing and attacking Israeli football fans. It was a lie. Only one TV channel (a German one) subsequently apologised to the Dutch journalist for using her clip to deliberately lie to their viewers.

No one is denying that a serious event happened. Very few are denying that there could have been an anti semitic element to some of the later violence. But the way the whole series of events was framed and manipulated by TV, press and politicians, and used for cynical propaganda purposes is where there seems to be a difference between you and most on this thread.

It's how JW operates

If I am a anti semite then he's a zionist

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

Of course.

But why are you talking about kristallnacht?

You have been suggesting a systematic attack on Jewish people happened the other night

As did all these media soundbites

A return to nazi Germany.....crystal night

It's nonsense of course

But you have been running with it as a defence

[JamesWales]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

It's how JW operates

If I am a anti semite then he's a zionist

When did I call you an antisemite?

How is acknowledging that antisemitic attacks occured remotely tied to a geopolitical position on Israel?

[JamesWales]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

You have been suggesting a systematic attack on Jewish people happened the other night

As did all these media soundbites

A return to nazi Germany.....crystal night

It's nonsense of course

But you have been running with it as a defence

I've been agreeing with the police, the Dutch PM, mayor of Amsterdam and the media.

All of whom know far more about this than you.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Amsterdam Violence

My bias? I am merely stating that it seems very likely that serious antisemitic attacks occured. And that seems to be verified.

Do you not think that is the case? If so why are the politicians lying?

This is so far the best foot up your arse

Raj Sanker is great 👍