Palestine Action

[JamesWales]

Re: Palestine Action

Are you suggesting vandalism with paint caused £300m worth of damage? The British Forces should be thankful that a hole in their security was brought to their attention without doing worse damage.

Apologies, that's a typo, you can see I wrote £30m above twice.

The planes weren't just sprayed. It wasnt graffiti, the paint was sprayed into the engines.

As stated, I was initially surprised to see talk of them being proscribed, but which other proscribed groups purposefully target the British military (or other state organizations) and get away with it?

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/uk/costs-damage-palestine-action-attacks-raf-brize-norton-30-million/

[jon1959]

Re: Palestine Action

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/jun/30/palestine-action-spraying-paint-terrorism-ministers-abuse-powers-gaza

'We have laws to deal with crimes linked to protest. What this is really about is a government complicit in the Gaza atrocities seeking to silence dissent.' (Juliet Stevenson)

[JamesWales]

Re: Palestine Action

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...se-powers-gaza

'We have laws to deal with crimes linked to protest. What this is really about is a government complicit in the Gaza atrocities seeking to silence dissent.' (Juliet Stevenson)

But as I say, in the interests of drilling into this, can you name another non-proscribed group who routinely target the countries military infrastructure?

[Dorcus]

Re: Palestine Action

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...se-powers-gaza

'We have laws to deal with crimes linked to protest. What this is really about is a government complicit in the Gaza atrocities seeking to silence dissent.' (Juliet Stevenson)

This disaster of a Government is more concerned about the spilling of red paint than red blood.

[jeepster]

Re: Palestine Action

This disaster of a Government is more concerned about the spilling of red paint than red blood.

True words are ore deadly than bullets

[jon1959]

Re: Palestine Action

But as I say, in the interests of drilling into this, can you name another non-proscribed group who routinely target the countries military infrastructure?

It is not the point, but what is this 'routinely' you are talking about. Their targets are not normally UK military infrastructure - Brize Norton was not typical - although as Kier Starmer has helpfully explained (a few years ago!) that action would be legitimate to prevent further war crimes, as the RAF has been flying from Cyprus on recon missions for Israel for well over a year.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_Action

[JamesWales]

Re: Palestine Action

It is not the point, but what is this 'routinely' you are talking about. Their targets are not normally UK military infrastructure - Brize Norton was not typical - although as Kier Starmer has helpfully explained (a few years ago!) that action would be legitimate to prevent further war crimes, as the RAF has been flying from Cyprus on recon missions for Israel for well over a year.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_Action

Well I definitely don't think it will be going forward.

But surely you can see - irrespective of the fact you clearly support this group - that causing millions of pounds worth of damage to a nations military equipment in pursuit of your political aim is not normal and whether it is the act of terrorism or not, it is clearly very close to the line if not over it.

What are we supposed to do? Sit back and watch them damage everything? What would the next target be?

[jon1959]

Re: Palestine Action

Well I definitely don't think it will be going forward.

But surely you can see - irrespective of the fact you clearly support this group - that causing millions of pounds worth of damage to a nations military equipment in pursuit of your political aim is not normal and whether it is the act of terrorism or not, it is clearly very close to the line if not over it.

What are we supposed to do? Sit back and watch them damage everything? What would the next target be?

I have said I'm not a fan of throwing paint over things - so I don't 'support' all their methods - but I do agree with the point they are making and admire their commitment and willingness to risk gaol time.

They are not the villains of the story. They are pointing a finger at the villains who commit their crimes with no consequences.

And the 'What are we supposed to do' question?

Who are 'we'?

But if you are placing yourself in the same place as the UK government, then the answer presumably is you try to prosecute them for criminal damage. Maybe a jury will agree? Maybe a 20 years younger Kier Starmer will have to explain the mitigations again and help to get them acquitted?

What you don't do is misuse the Terrorism Act to proscribe the organisation and its supporters - however much embarrassment is caused, however much you are lobbied by the Israeli Embassy and its echoes, and however much the laxness of RAF security is shown up. What Palestine Action did at Brize Norton was not terrorism or 'close to the line'. That is a very dangerous viewpoint.

[JamesWales]

Re: Palestine Action

I have said I'm not a fan of throwing paint over things - so I don't 'support' all their methods - but I do agree with the point they are making and admire their commitment and willingness to risk gaol time.

They are not the villains of the story. They are pointing a finger at the villains who commit their crimes with no consequences.

And the 'What are we supposed to do' question?

Who are 'we'?

But if you are placing yourself in the same place as the UK government, then the answer presumably is you try to prosecute them for criminal damage. Maybe a jury will agree? Maybe a 20 years younger Kier Starmer will have to explain the mitigations again and help to get them acquitted?

What you don't do is misuse the Terrorism Act to proscribe the organisation and its supporters - however much embarrassment is caused, however much you are lobbied by the Israeli Embassy and its echoes, and however much the laxness of RAF security is shown up. What Palestine Action did at Brize Norton was not terrorism or 'close to the line'. That is a very dangerous viewpoint.

But most groups on the proscribed lists most definitely have not caused £30m worth of damage to the British military. Not even close. In most cases its violent language and aims that seems to be the reasoning behind being proscribed. This group has acted it out. Not against people, that's true, and very important to state, but still acted it out.

As I said, I don't think it's cut and dried at all. I just find it interesting that others think that breaking in and purposely damaging the countries military equipment for your own political sins is somehow a million miles away from terrorism, and I'm not sure it is. What if the government don't agree with it? Will they do it again, damage more stuff?

I think they crossed a line tbh and clearly the govt do too.

[JamesWales]

Re: Palestine Action

*political aims* not political sins. The autocorrect on my phone is doing my head in.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Palestine Action

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...se-powers-gaza

'We have laws to deal with crimes linked to protest. What this is really about is a government complicit in the Gaza atrocities seeking to silence dissent.' (Juliet Stevenson)

That's a very powerful piece I reckon, made all the more so by what she says in the closing paragraphs.

[Coyote]

Re: Palestine Action

Surely you recognize a group that pushes for damage of state military and consistently does so is at least an issue, and not some grand conspiracy?

What if some far right group caused £30m of damage to the coastguard and proposed to continue to do it because of their enabling role in the boat crossings? Would that just be vandalism?

This has nothing to do with post WW2 and even less to do with Thatcher

The problem is that the state military is playing a role in harbouring and sheltering a rogue state committing ethnic cleansing, and may have been on the way to assist Israel in a full-out, completely unsubstantiated and unjustified war against Iran. And yet Palestine Action took an action that ultimately harmed nobody, let alone seriously. It was restrained, and yet this is the disproportionate reaction from the government.

And yes, it does have a lot to do with post WW2 and Thatcher. From the mid-late forties to the seventies, a lot of initiatives were introduced that ushered in an age of economic prosperity and well-being for the citizenry, a lot of which began getting revoked under Thatcher and the neoliberal leaders that followed her. The result is an asset-stripping from the citizenry, and we're now being told there's a possibility we could be involved in fighting on the behalf of a nation conducting a genocide. You can't just give something to the citizenry, and then take it away without expecting them to be furious, and it has disaster written all over it. The corruption in the British and American governments is at a level not seen since the Gilded Age, and this moral crisis and demand we must respect the nation conducting a genocide is the cherry on top the shit sundae. By all standards something restrained from Palestine Action has resulted in them being declared terrorists on the same level as Al-Qaeda and ISIS, which is beyond ridiculous.

People are furious, and this lack of engagement in critiquing Israel's actions in strong enough terms could be absolutely devastating, both morally and structurally.

[jon1959]

Re: Palestine Action

https://www.thecanary.co/trending/2025/07/01/bob-vylan-israel/?__s=hheshtdmarsdn8syijsb

For anyone who enjoys Grade A hypocrisy, read (above) the statement from the Israeli Embassy in London. Wow!

[JamesWales]

Re: Palestine Action

https://www.thecanary.co/trending/20...dmarsdn8syijsb

For anyone who enjoys Grade A hypocrisy, read (above) the statement from the Israeli Embassy in London. Wow!

Are you saying it's bad to call for the death of people then?

If so, our legal system should be intervening where such calls are made in this country then?

[Dorcus]

Re: Palestine Action

https://www.thecanary.co/trending/20...dmarsdn8syijsb

For anyone who enjoys Grade A hypocrisy, read (above) the statement from the Israeli Embassy in London. Wow!

Just awful!