Palestine Action

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Palestine Action

I dont think i know anybody who isn't sympathetic to the Palestinian cause, who wouldn't be? but the current day protester is far removed from the greenham common types of a few decades ago, often a little rowdy but without the level of violence of the current rent a mob paid disrupters, these violent types do nothing IMO to help the cause. I would guess that the 1980's women at GC were far more sincere to their cause than this lot at the moment who switch flag at ease depending on the current BBC news cycle, it was a long time ago and i cannot be arsed to google it so maybe they were violent and i just dont remember.

Nothing less than modern day terrorism.

https://www.waterford-news.ie/news/the-40-meter-travelling-grannies-for-gaza-quilt-is-coming-to-waterford_arid-68678.html

[Dorcus]

Re: Palestine Action

Nothing less than modern day terrorism.

https://www.waterford-news.ie/news/t...rid-68678.html

What lovely people 👍

[jon1959]

Re: Palestine Action

Nothing less than modern day terrorism.

https://www.waterford-news.ie/news/t...rid-68678.html

Rent A Mob!

[Heathblue]

Re: Palestine Action

Rent A Mob!

Nice to see the commie squad back on the attack after a brief pause
5D Chess
Future proves past
Everything has meaning
Trust The Plan

PS
I should have remembered the poll tax riots/(demos) my grandad went on one, and also i believe a taxi driver was killed during the miners protests, i did go on a demo once but no flag or banner, not sure if it was Ridsdale out or possibly Sam H.

[jon1959]

Re: Palestine Action

I dont think i know anybody who isn't sympathetic to the Palestinian cause, who wouldn't be? but the current day protester is far removed from the greenham common types of a few decades ago, often a little rowdy but without the level of violence of the current rent a mob paid disrupters, these violent types do nothing IMO to help the cause. I would guess that the 1980's women at GC were far more sincere to their cause than this lot at the moment who switch flag at ease depending on the current BBC news cycle, it was a long time ago and i cannot be arsed to google it so maybe they were violent and i just dont remember.

An interesting take - although wrong! It must be the cumulative effect of too much Tik Tok, X, Suella Braverman and the chief Rabbi!

Maybe worth looking at the reality, rather than the hostile propaganda?

I was on the last national Palestine demonstration in London a fortnight ago - my 17th which is exactly half of them. As usual I was with the Sheffield and Chesterfield contingents - mostly old socialists, students, women from East Sheffield mosques, refugees (including a family that got out of Gaza 3 months ago - not sure how), Jewish activists and a mix of others. As usual it was angry and good humoured at the sane time. It was not violent - and I have never seen violence or threat. We we just ahead if the Cardiff, Swansea and Valleys banners - like ours mainly Trades Councils and Palestine Solidarity Campaign.

There were about 120,000 marchers. The biggest was 800,000 ( PA) in November 2023. A lot have been around 250-350,000.

There were contingents from Trades Unions, the Greens, Lib Dems, Quakers, at least three Jewish contingents (Jewish Bloc, Jewish Socialists and several other organisations with their own banners) and holocaust survivors (or their children with ‘not in our name’ placards), as well as anti-Zionist orthodox Jews. The Manchester Drummers are now about 60 strong - and loud. There were groups behind banners like Gardeners Against Genocide, Wedding Planners Against Genocide, Liverpool and Celtic supporters for Palestine and more.

The whole demonstration - as usual - was a mix of young and old, of black, brown and white, of people with religious beliefs and none. The head if the march, as always was led by The Palestine Solidarity Campaign, Stop The War Coalition, CND and Friends Of Al Aqsa ( the Jerusalem mosque). Plenty of chanting. Denunciation of Netanyahu, Trump and Starmer. Photos of the dead and tortured. Platform speeches on Whitehall from MPs, doctors returned from Gaza, anti Zionist Jewish organisations, Trades Unions and others. That is the pattern. That is normal.

Also normal is one static counter demonstration with a massive sound system, Israeli, UK and Indian flags and about 70-80 people. The Palestine demonstration stewards (more than the police) ensure no contact and no provocation.

But that is not the picture painted by the Israel lobby, by Labour, Tory and Reform politicians ( they still love the label ‘hate marches’) most of the mainstream media or most of the Musk directed sewer that is X. But it is the reality. If Sheffield is typical, my guess us that almost 3 million people have taken part in at least one national march, as well as all the local and regional protests that take place most weeks.

[The Lone Gunman]

Re: Palestine Action

I dont think i know anybody who isn't sympathetic to the Palestinian cause, who wouldn't be?

Not sure this is serious, is it?

[Dorcus]

Re: Palestine Action

Not sure this is serious, is it?

He's been hacked

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Palestine Action

An interesting take - although wrong! It must be the cumulative effect of too much Tik Tok, X, Suella Braverman and the chief Rabbi!

Maybe worth looking at the reality, rather than the hostile propaganda?

I was on the last national Palestine demonstration in London a fortnight ago - my 17th which is exactly half of them. As usual I was with the Sheffield and Chesterfield contingents - mostly old socialists, students, women from East Sheffield mosques, refugees (including a family that got out of Gaza 3 months ago - not sure how), Jewish activists and a mix of others. As usual it was angry and good humoured at the sane time. It was not violent - and I have never seen violence or threat. We we just ahead if the Cardiff, Swansea and Valleys banners - like ours mainly Trades Councils and Palestine Solidarity Campaign.

There were about 120,000 marchers. The biggest was 800,000 ( PA) in November 2023. A lot have been around 250-350,000.

There were contingents from Trades Unions, the Greens, Lib Dems, Quakers, at least three Jewish contingents (Jewish Bloc, Jewish Socialists and several other organisations with their own banners) and holocaust survivors (or their children with ‘not in our name’ placards), as well as anti-Zionist orthodox Jews. The Manchester Drummers are now about 60 strong - and loud. There were groups behind banners like Gardeners Against Genocide, Wedding Planners Against Genocide, Liverpool and Celtic supporters for Palestine and more.

The whole demonstration - as usual - was a mix of young and old, of black, brown and white, of people with religious beliefs and none. The head if the march, as always was led by The Palestine Solidarity Campaign, Stop The War Coalition, CND and Friends Of Al Aqsa ( the Jerusalem mosque). Plenty of chanting. Denunciation of Netanyahu, Trump and Starmer. Photos of the dead and tortured. Platform speeches on Whitehall from MPs, doctors returned from Gaza, anti Zionist Jewish organisations, Trades Unions and others. That is the pattern. That is normal.

Also normal is one static counter demonstration with a massive sound system, Israeli, UK and Indian flags and about 70-80 people. The Palestine demonstration stewards (more than the police) ensure no contact and no provocation.

But that is not the picture painted by the Israel lobby, by Labour, Tory and Reform politicians ( they still love the label ‘hate marches’) most of the mainstream media or most of the Musk directed sewer that is X. But it is the reality. If Sheffield is typical, my guess us that almost 3 million people have taken part in at least one national march, as well as all the local and regional protests that take place most weeks.

That is what I don't understand about all of this. I think the government probably made an mistake in proscribing the organisation BUT there are an endless (as you detail) amount of ways to voice your opinion without supporting PA specfically. It just feels so performative to get arrested for supporting an organisation that you will likely get arrested for doing so when you can just turn up to the march and support the cause/oppose the Israeli action in countless other ways. You can actually make exactly the same point with almost identical words, week in week out if you want.

I asked you about this earlier in the thread or maybe in another thread and if I remember rightly, you said something that amounted to 'they are better than me'. I don't agree with that though, I think you are doing it the right way, I don't think its as effective as they think it is to sacrificially get themselves arrested for a specific organisation (of which they have no control or influence over). This should be about what you believe, not attaching yourself to a cart and having to justify everything others do in the name of the cause, your red line might be very different to others within an organisation.

[JamesWales]

Re: Palestine Action

Nothing less than modern day terrorism.

https://www.waterford-news.ie/news/t...rid-68678.html

Such a stupid take.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Palestine Action

Such a stupid take.

Whose, mine or theirs?

[jon1959]

Re: Palestine Action

That is what I don't understand about all of this. I think the government probably made an mistake in proscribing the organisation BUT there are an endless (as you detail) amount of ways to voice your opinion without supporting PA specfically. It just feels so performative to get arrested for supporting an organisation that you will likely get arrested for doing so when you can just turn up to the march and support the cause/oppose the Israeli action in countless other ways. You can actually make exactly the same point with almost identical words, week in week out if you want.

I asked you about this earlier in the thread or maybe in another thread and if I remember rightly, you said something that amounted to 'they are better than me'. I don't agree with that though, I think you are doing it the right way, I don't think its as effective as they think it is to sacrificially get themselves arrested for a specific organisation (of which they have no control or influence over). This should be about what you believe, not attaching yourself to a cart and having to justify everything others do in the name of the cause, your red line might be very different to others within an organisation.

I think direct action complements other forms of protest - and helps to draw press, public and political attention onto things that otherwise get lost in the noise or the hostility. In this case it is the arms supplies to the IDF, the access those companies have to the government, the export licenses agreed (all Elbit Systems and similar), and the supply of RAF overfly (from Cyprus) intelligence to the Israeli government that have contributed to the Gaza catastrophe. The actions get that attention and focus. I don’t lose a second’s sleep over ‘criminal damage’ - but harm to people is different.

The PA activists don’t expect to cause major disruption to arms supplies but they do expect to get peoples’ attention. And they have.

The nearly 3000 arrests of disabled pensioners holding signs supporting PA and condemning genocide (and complicity in genocide) is much more about challenging authoritarianism and government suppression of protest than supporting specific PA actions.

It has always been this way. The Chartists, the Suffragettes and all who came after used a combination of tactics and methods to achieve change. In the case of women’s suffrage, the methods included fire bombs, explosives and guns. Many of the Labour ministers who were falling over themselves to proscribe Palestine Action as ‘terrorist’ ( to the satisfaction of Trump and Netanyahu and their happy clappers) were also falling over themselves a few weeks earlier to be pictured at Suffragette commemoration events! Still, what’s a bit of hypocrisy between friends?

[Dorcus]

Re: Palestine Action

I think direct action complements other forms of protest - and helps to draw press, public and political attention onto things that otherwise get lost in the noise or the hostility. In this case it is the arms supplies to the IDF, the access those companies have to the government, the export licenses agreed (all Elbit Systems and similar), and the supply of RAF overfly (from Cyprus) intelligence to the Israeli government that have contributed to the Gaza catastrophe. The actions get that attention and focus. I don’t lose a second’s sleep over ‘criminal damage’ - but harm to people is different.

The PA activists don’t expect to cause major disruption to arms supplies but they do expect to get peoples’ attention. And they have.

The nearly 3000 arrests of disabled pensioners holding signs supporting PA and condemning genocide (and complicity in genocide) is much more about challenging authoritarianism and government suppression of protest than supporting specific PA actions.

It has always been this way. The Chartists, the Suffragettes and all who came after used a combination of tactics and methods to achieve change. In the case of women’s suffrage, the methods included fire bombs, explosives and guns. Many of the Labour ministers who were falling over themselves to proscribe Palestine Action as ‘terrorist’ ( to the satisfaction of Trump and Netanyahu and their happy clappers) were also falling over themselves a few weeks earlier to be pictured at Suffragette commemoration events! Still, what’s a bit of hypocrisy between friends?

Unfortunately humane change will never be achieved without breaking eggs. Too many comfortable vested interests sit in tight and resist positive change until the time there are arses set in front of the fire

[JamesWales]

Re: Palestine Action

More pleasantness from the horrible lot!

Not terrorism on this occasion, but racially aggravated criminal damage.

[Dorcus]

Re: Palestine Action

More pleasantness from the horrible lot!

Not terrorism on this occasion, but racially aggravated criminal damage.

Horrible pleasantness??? That's some semantic gymnastics Shirley?

[Jordi Culé]

Re: Palestine Action

More pleasantness from the horrible lot!

Not terrorism on this occasion, but racially aggravated criminal damage.

Is this the graffiti sprayed on Churchill statue?

If so, what was the racial element of the criminal damage.